Date: 17 Jul 2002 15:15:25 GMT From: davehinznopsamcop.net Subject: Re: Help - motor crashed on 94 V6
Someone who looks an awful lot like Wyatt Taylor <wwtaylornopsamll.net> wrote: > I understand and agree with your point that customers have a responsibility > to do maintenance. >>Did the book he had with the car >>outline a maintenence schedule? Was he following it? Did it list >>"change timing belts" somewhere around 60,000? > Yes, he had the book. In fine print it lists the belt change, OK, I don't have a mid-90's Saab for reference, but in my '88 and my '99, they both have a book which is quite explicit about what needs to be done at which service intervals, including a checklist. Hard to see those as "fine print", maybe it's different for that car? Tickets in a book, get torn out as service is done... got anything like that? > along with a > bunch of other maintenance items. He had the 35K maintenance work done at > the dealership. Obviously he missed the 65K checkup. Sounds like that was his big mistake. > As I said before, the > clutch cable broke at 72K miles and he had it towed to the dealership. They > did not tell him that he was past the deadline for the timing belt change. How, exactly, are they responsible for handholding him? Are they supposed to ask how many miles since he changed his oil and filters too, when he comes in for a repair? Rotate the tires? Wiper blades? When you take a car in for repair, you're telling them to fix what is broken. It is unreasonable to expect them to go through your entire service history to make sure you've been taking care of a car. Further, it's quite likey that the same kind of person who would try to blame Saab for their own failure to properly maintain a vehicle, are the same kind of person who would take exception to the Saab dealer telling them they need to take care of something that is 12,000 miles (or 7,000) miles overdue. > By the way, the belt change is free but it does not say that in the book. > The 65K service interval costs about $500 or $600. Yeah, that's about what I just paid for my 30K checkup on my 9-5. No belts, though... >>If someone goes in talking about lawsuits, I can see >>how Saab might just consider that customer to be not worth trying to keep. > In other words, if the customer doesn't complain, occasionally they will get > treated kindly? and if they have a complaint, screw 'em? That's not what I'm saying at all. A good customer is someone who is likely to buy another car from Saab in the future. A bad customer is someone who doesn't take care of their Saab, and then comes in talking about lawsuits when their failure to maintain as reccomended causes a mechanical failure. A customer like that, isn't worth keeping. > I don't want to do > business with any company like that. Loyalty is built by dealing responsibly > with customer problems. The responsibility is not one-way. The owner of the car, by failing to have the basic servicing done on the car (which Saab would have done for free, even), caused this failure. Full stop. If they had had their belt changed as documented and provided for free by the dealership, this would not have happened. To expect any car manufacturer to fix a broken engine, caused by owner neglect, on an out-of-warranty car, is not a reasonable expectation. > If this engine is so great, why did they only sell it for two years? It was > only sold in 94 and 95. Why would you design an engine, with interference, > with a rubber timing belt that will eventually break? Does Saab now put > timing belts in their engines or metal timing chains? I'll tell you why - > they put timing belts in because they don't require lubrication and their > manufacturing cost is less. If you had the first clue about the history of where that engine came from, (from other messages in this thread, even...), you'd know that most of what you just wrote is wrong. The only reason there are V6's in Saabs, are because the marketing folks decided that it should be foisted onto Saab from GM, so that people like your friend who think that cylinder count is more important than performance would buy them. The timing belts were in a engine in a Saab, because that's what was in that GM V6. Every Saab inline-4 engine built has had timing chains, since the first year of production of the Saab 99 in the late 1960's. Before that, it was timing gears in the V4, before that it was piston timing in the 3-cylinder two stroke engines. EVERY ENGINE EVER MADE WITH TIMING BELTS, BY ANYONE, NEEDS THEM CHANGED FREQUENTLY. Sorry for shouting, but this isn't rocket science. Hence the change intervals provided for free by Saab, and the "small print" in the service books. > If my friend knew before he bought the car that it required intense > maintenance, and that the implications of not following the service > intervals exactly, would destroy the engine and make the car worthless, he > would have chosen *not* to buy that car. While we're at it, make sure he knows he needs to keep coolant in the radiator, brake pads in the calipers, oil in the engine, gas in the tank, air in the tires, hand so on. His failure to perform the basic service provided *for free*, in addition to his willful ignorance about what needed to be done to his car, is nobody's fault but his own. > Everyone knows that cars need frequent oil changes, there are 10 minutes oil > change franchises everywhere. Have you ever seen a sign anywhere that says > "your timing belt may need to be changed?" Yeah, it's in the book that came with the car. Along with the other maintenance tasks that he's obviously been ignoring. > I have a feeling this car will be for sale, cheap. Would you like to buy it? I wouldn't touch a neglected car with a ten foot pole. But, maybe he can find some other person, who like himself, who thinks those 2 extra pistons actually improve matters. With any luck, the next owner will actually take care of the car. Dave Hinz
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