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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 08:24:01 -0500
From: "Kenneth S." <nimrodnopsams.com>
Subject: Re: Best built recent Saab?


Paul Halliday wrote: > > in article ut8q1rctv5i2denopsam.supernews.com, pablo at > pabloATsimplyhombreDOTnet wrote on 15/11/2002 03:22: > > > > > <davehinznopsamcop.net> wrote in message > > news:ar0gi3$dhd7c$1nopsam34476.news.dfncis.de... > >> > >> I think that your understanding of Saab history is severely lacking. > > > > Maybe you can tell us which Saab model, exactly, was challenging BMW's 2002 > > or 3 series when it came to curve carving capabilities? > > > > If you claim utmost sporting capability ranked tops on Saab's agenda when it > > came to developing street cars, then either you're the one that doesn't know > > Saab history, or you're looking at it through very rose-tinted lenses. > > Okay Pablo, I'll have to cut in here. It may not have been Saab's "official > intention", but I doubt it was BMW's official intention either, to produce > fast cars. > > I've owned two classic 900 turbos; one of which I still own. > > 1. I demolished a mid/late-90s M3 on an uphill race. The driver of the M3 > was visibly rocking back and forth in his seat to try to make the car go > faster while I cruised on by. > > 2. I tail-gated a 730 on the motorway for a few miles in my old classic 900 > turbo. I had no problem keeping up with him and arguably overtook him when > he panicked about the race and quite suddenly pulled off the motorway. > > 3. Subaru Impreza 2000 Turbo - No contest. They're not the monsters that > they're made out to be. Even my wife driving our 1985 900i caught up with us > after half a mile or so. > > 4. TVR Chimera - Yup, left one of these standing on a very windy road over > the Pennines, our UK equivalent of the Rockies :) Older Saabs are good at > this kind of driving - the 92/96 being prime examples. Think Carlsson, or > Blomqvist's 99s. I was a passenger in a friend's 1.0L classic VW Polo and we > had similar fun racing a TVR over the moors once. > > 5. Mitsubishi Evo - Now that is a contest. I've never beaten one of these. > > 6. Volvo S70 T5 - I got annihilated by one of these in the same way that I > took out the M3. Just think how one of these would have treated the M3 :) > > If you do get the chance to actually drive one of these "older Saabs" you'll > end up with a very different opinion. They are "point and squirt" racers and > they are very strong and safe handling cars on lesser roads. > > Top speeds? Oh, 130+ MPH in my first 900 turbo, over 140 MPH in my current > turbo, 125 MPH in my 900i. 0-60? Don't give a sh*t - they're still faster > than BMWs :) > > As for current Saabs, both the 9-3 and the 9-5 will comfortably cruise at > speeds far in excess of most national speed limits. > > <snip>Comments about driveability</snip> > > > Once you lay off the LSD, you'll see my point was Saab was not trying to > > compete with the very sportiest brands on pushing the corner carving > > envelope - saabs were designed with more criteria in mind, and longevity, > > sturdiness, practicality and safety were blended with a satidfying element > > of performance. But boy racers took their business elsewhere. > > Oh, we're talking "boy" racers? I've now grown out of hot-hatches ... and > LSD for that matter. Now I'm a man, I race a Saab :) Left-foot braking, > still topping the revs on the corners and red-lining the turbo on the > straight is all part of the fun with a Saab. The centre of gravity and > rigidity on the road is just right. > > > I had been wanting to buy a Saab for 15 years. I always thought the Saab > > value proposition very appealing. My point here is that many people in this > > forum claim Saab's gone to the dogs since GM acquired it - and that I do not > > agree with. Every acquisition comes with moments of disorientation, but I do > > not think Saab lost its identity badly - I think it became more what it once > > was over the 90s. > > It is without doubt that the GM 900 was poor. Poor, not only in comparison > with it's forebears, but with it's competition. The current Saab line-up is > substantially better built. The "disorientation period" is over and I think > that the 9-3 and the 9-5 are both very appealing and desirable cars (even to > a Classic owner) and with GM, along with all their cloak and dagger > affiliations with Lotus, the current Saab line-up is likely to have some > serious racers produced in the future. > > > Say what you like about the new 9-3 -and personally I am > > not a huge fan yet- but Saabs have never been this close to challenging BMW > > and Mercedes and the whole bunch since they came out with the original > > Turbos - and that was a while ago. > > So you do concede that the "original turbos" were a challenge? > > Keep on Saabing Pablo... > > There is a book called 'Saab 99 and 900 - The Complete Story' by Lance Cole. > Get it and read it. > > Paul Er, Paul, I understand that the Yorkshire constabulary, and several other police forces in Britain, are VERY interested in getting more details about your motoring activities. For a small consideration, I'll refrain from forwarding your message to Scotland Yard. Tell you what, squire -- FedEx me a European-specification convex driver's side mirror for my 1998 900 SE, and we'll say no more about it. (The U.S.-specification mirror, with its flat glass, leaves a blind spot at the side of the car.)

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