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Date: 14 Apr 2003 15:51:21 GMT
From: davehinznopsamcop.net
Subject: Re: 9-5 Passenger Airbag - how to disable?


Someone who looks an awful lot like someguy <someguynopsamhere.se> wrote: > Actually both accident statistics and research shows that the safest place is in > the front seat. There are several reasons for this: I'm sure you can provide a cite for this statement, right? Could you please do so? > - In the front the child seat has a strong support when leaning towards the > panel which supports the seat even during very hard front collisions. Modern > cars are designed to give acceptable collision decelleration for any objects > inside the passenger area and thus the child can take also a rather severe > collision. If the child seat is mounted in the rear it is supported only by the > back of the front seat, which gives a much more unsafe support than the panel. Not true. Current production cars (at least in the US) have a tether point for securing the child seat to, and Saab will retrofit these into older cars on request (at, I believe, no cost). There is no tether in the front seat, and the car seat would be mounted to the front seat by the 3-point belts, which is not as solid of a connection to the car as that same 3-point belt in the back with a tether. > The situation can be improved by using a child seat stand that goes down to the > floor, but it is still inferior to the front seat mounting. I've never seen such a device. Have you? > - Collision tests show that child seats mounted in the rear give higher stresses > on the child body than seats mounted in the front. The trick to reduce the body > stresses is to be able to have the child seat follow the car collision impulse > curve as much as possible (this is done by having the seat mounted as tight as > possible, welding is the best method here!) I've never seen a carseat designed to be welded into a car, nor have I seen a car designed to have a child carseat welded into it. Have you? > and by spreading the collision > forces on as large area as possible of the child body (this is done by making > the child seat back as large as possible ) The area of the back of the carseat has nothing to do with anything, it's contact of the child with the carseat, which of course, is carried out with the 5-way harness in the carseat. > - If the child is placed in the rear never place it close to the door, rather in > the middle (and don't forget the supporting stand to the car floor!). The reason > for this is that the post between the front and rear door is the weakest point > of the car at a side collision. Cite, please? > Also for a side collision the front seat > mounting is superior since the car is strongest at the front post, which in > combination with the fairly stiff wall between the engine and passenger areas > protects the child extremely well. I strongly disagree. The rear axle tunnel gives quite a bit of horizontal resistance in an impact; there is no analogous structure in the front except for the firewall, which is too far forward to do much in a t-bone collision. The doors (as, er, I'm sure you know) have had beams in them since 1973 for this sort of collision, to transmit force in the doors into the pillars. > - The available volume is often larger in the front, which means that the child > can sit facing the rear much longer. Scientists recommend to have children in > reverse mounted child seats up to the age of 4 or 5. Really? Can you provide (...you know the rest...) Where is the kid's legs supposed to go, by the way? Have you ever *seen* a 4 or 5 year old kid? > - Having the child in the front reduces the risk of ending up in accident. A US > study shows that the risk of getting an accident at all is increased by about > 30% if the child sits in the rear seat, this is probably due to the poor contact > between the driver and the rear seated child. Cite please? > Car manufacturers tend to recommend to have the child seat in the rear just to > simplify their responsibilities and to reduce the problems of being able to > easily disconnect the airbag. Odd, then, that this advice predates airbags by many years. Clever of them to think so far ahead. One might say "incredible", even. > Thus, don't trust the car manufacturers in this > case, they are not looking at the problem from a child perspective. Perhaps they are instead using this thing called "science". Could you kindly back up your statements with cites to some of it, please? > someguy Ah, of course. "I read it on the Internet from some guy who wouldn't even give a name, so I know it's true." Gotcha. Dave Hinz

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