Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 21:29:23 +0000 (UTC) From: "Pete Brown" <petes.inboxnopsamternet.com> Subject: Re: winter tyres with rims
"Johannes H Andersen" <johsnopsamfitter.com> wrote in message news:3F987276.3CB35C69nopsamfitter.com... > > > Pete Brown wrote: > > > > Hi fellow Saabers. > > > > Please reflect on my salutation and please excuse any offence that I may > > cause in this post. I play Devil's Advocate. > > > > Xenna makes several good points about the use of a single language (English) > > on an NG like this. What I would disagree with is that English is a > > minority language. This requires further scrutiny and clarity in > > definition. If, by minority, it is meant little in numbers or % compared to > > the total population on the Earth, then yes, English is a minority language. > > But this comparator is, in my view, not legitimate. English, of all the > > World's languages, is the most common, internationally used language, > > particularly in business. Is it not the official language of the European > > Union????????(Pardone moi, my French friends and colleagues). > > > > I would like to make a further point in relation to the view that was > > expressed about the use of different languages on a world-wide NG like this > > one. (Although I do accept the point made earlier that most Saab owners on > > this NG are in North America and the UK). My point is that, whilst the use > > of different languages encourages and upholds nationalistic issues, it is > > inherently self-destructive. Take the UK, for instance. Our current > > government in its support for ethnic minorities (and an immigration policy > > that lies in shreds) is spending millions of GBP on employing classroom > > assistants who speak non-English languages to reflect the ethnic mix of > > whatever school they are employed in. So in certain inner city schools in > > certain English cities where kids from an Asian "background" (used > > advisedly) abound they are being taught in their ethnic language not English > > (which is taught later as a second language). What will happen, as it did > > in certain US cities where this was carried out, is further and fatal > > alienation of ethnic groups, a lack of integration into British culture and > > society and further and catastrophic polarisation of the Community. > > Notwithstanding the permanent damage that will be done in an English > > speaking society to their long term education. The money of course could be > > better spent on buying books and improving the physical fabric of a decaying > > educational infrastructure. Political correctness gone mad!! If I went to > > live in China or Pakistan I would be expect, out of courtesy at least, to > > comply and fit in to the local national culture. Why not in the UK? > > > > So let us not lose the plot here my Saab brothers and sisters. Whilst there > > be no charter (I would much rather prefer the use of the term "convention") > > to only use English, effective communication (for this is surely what this > > NG is all about) can only occur if all can understand what is being > > communicated. Is this not a self-evident fact? > > > > I, as Devil's Advocate, rest my case. > > > > Let the debate begin. > > OK, my turn. For a start I'm not your brother or sister. The usenet is anarchy > and anybody can write what he wants. We may not like it, but nobody can stop it. > In fact, I could write in Danish was it not because this keyboard is not very > suitable. Most Scandinavians would understand it. A disadvantage would be > that fewer will be able to read my posts, but the important point to notice > is that the disadvantage would be on my part, not the reader who will just skip > over. Similarly, I often skip over top posters as I find it cumbersome for my > newsreader. This is a problem for the top poster, not for me. I also have a > slight problem with people insisting writing everything in lower case, this > is not even an official script method. A minority language is. > Alrighty! It must be my turn now. You have entirely misunderstood the "my Saab brothers and sisters" thing and I am not even going to try and explain it in case I insult the kindness and intelligence of my fellow Saab owners. Quite frankly I really don't give a *%$& whether you are a brother or a sister (hey its free world) and I won't be going there again. When I enter this NG I do not see anarchy. I accept that one is free to write in a language of one's choosing and that one may also write anything that one wants. I may or may not like it but it happens. It happens very rarely though. In the vast majority of posts I see kindness, courtesy, frankness and occasional rudeness. I see a great Saab gathering of minds. What I do not see is anarchy. I note the points you make about being disadvantaged. > We can take this further. Minority languages in the UK or elsewhere is only a > problem if the language is insufficient for reaching the audience intended by > the author, otherwise I don't see any problem. I'm sorry Johannes, I fail to see the point you are making here. What I would say, subject to later correction my yourself I'm sure, is that in the UK the language of the country is English, but there are people, within their own ethnic communities in the UK who use Hindi, Urdu, Cantonese, Welsh, Irish, Gaelic to name but a few as a means of cultural expression and within the context of those cultures, communication. But when you come out into the big bad world of everyday living there must surely be an ability to speak the language of the country you are living in. To try and cater for all those languages by printing leaflets and guide books or employing interpreters in all those languages just diverts scarce money from a state system (I'm talking about the UK here) that is seriously in the midst of a funding crisis. This in turn builds up resentment in the indiginous community. The point is simply put. Anyways, the debate has begun and we will see where it leads. Not as long as Milton's great "Tyre Complaint" epic. :) If I may leave the alter-ego of the Devil's Advocate behind and allow Pete to speak. I am very sorry that you reacted to the Saab Brothers and Sisters thing they way you did. Where I come from in the UK, the term Brother or Sister is used as a term of friendliness or common interest/purpose and does not assume a formal connection with the other party either by blood or by marriage. Best Wishes Pete Brown
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