Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:20:11 GMT From: Saab Guy <nothingnospamo.com> Subject: Re: Maintain Your Identity - Saab
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:37:52 -0400 Malt_Hound <Malt_Houndnospamm*yahoo.com> wrote: > Tex wrote: > > "Malt_Hound" <Malt_Houndnospamm*yahoo.com> wrote in message > > news:SJqdnbTg_rtFYiLfRVn-3wnospamphia.com... > > > >>Tex wrote: > >> > >>>For cornering, I give the edge to the Saab. The 9-3 tracks any corner > >>>you give it w/o so much as a flinch. > >>> > >> > >>You apparently did not push them very hard. > > > > > > OK..._you_ tell me if I pushed the 9-3 hard enough. On several runs I got > > it up to 60-65 mph (100 km/h) then, at short distance (less than 40 > > ft...about 1/2 sec of drive time) and w/o braking (and other runs w/braking > > but f/higher speeds / & w/& w/o esp), steered it around an object directly > > in the line of travel. Now, I can't say it was easy doing this maneuvre, > > but the car definitely followed my command unhesitantly. > > > > > >>The BMW, with its RWD and 50/50 weight distribution, > > > > > > Actually, under hard braking (typical of an emergency accident avoidance > > situation or simply coming into a curve/corner at high speed w/brakes > > applied) a car will naturally lurch forward, shifting its weight > > distribution directly onto the front tires. This is good because this is > > exactly where the car needs the best traction (both for steering control and > > braking). So whilst from a topical viewpoint, a car with a 50/50 weight > > distribution _sounds_ good, in reality a car which has a slight weight bias > > towards the front wheels will indeed provide the driver better control in > > both steering and braking. > > > > A smart driver tries *not* do his steering and hard braking at the same > time. It's better to get the majority of braking done *before* entering > the corner and the only light braking if any, transitioning to > acceleration on the exit. > > Yes, under heavy braking almost all of any car's weight will be toward > the front. And in the reverse situation, under acceleration, the weight > is shifted toward the rear, which is another reason that it makes a lot > of sense to have the drive wheels back there, huh? The 50/50 weight > distribution thing is a very salient measurement. > > > > >>is relatively neutral with only a touch of understeer, which can be > >>modulated with varying the input to the (rear) drive wheels. The SAAB > >>being a FWD wants to plow through corners with incredible amount of > >>understeer and pressing the accelerator only makes the situation worse. > > > > > > And you've experienced this firsthand? While this may be true for other fwd > > cars, it's definitely, not true for the 9-3. > > Of course. > > > > > You're bringing this topic up with the right person. Having driven the 9-3, > > 9-5 and 9-2x under conditions which should have lead all three to illustrate > > severe understeer, I found neither of them to display severe understeer. I > > actually did find the 9-2x a bit unruly in the slalom (w/late apex turns) > > but eventually managed to get it to perform well. The 9-3's and 9-5's both > > performed very well. Despite its fwd platform, the 9-3 displayed no > > understeer at all. It gripped amazingly well through the turns w/o even > > having to tap the brakes once for additional downforce (which I had to do > > numerous times with the awd 9-2x). > > > > I had an accompaying professional race car driver whilst doing these > > maneuvres and he walked away saying the same things about the car (yes, he > > was driving it as well). > > > > - tex > > > > > > > I must confess that I have not driven one of the newer 9-3SS, and > perhaps these are better. But I have my doubts as I *have* owned a > 2000 9-3SE CV and it had serious under-steer, as well as torque steer, > cowl shake and host of other handling ills. I got rid of it 6 months > after I bought it. I also currently own a '98 900SE and a '93 9000CSET > and have in the past owned a '93 9000T and a '90 C900. These all pushed > pretty somewhat in the corners, though not as bad as the '00 ragtop. > > I also presently own 3 RWD BMWs, all of which handle far better, IMO. > It is simply the physics of Front vs Rear wheel drive. It is a > personal preference, I suppose, but the contrast is so stark *to me* > that I have difficulty understanding anyone preferring FWD *handling* to > RWD. There are other attributes that I could see could make one prefer > a SAAB over a BMW, but I just don't see handling being one. > > -Fred W No TORQUE steer PERIOD in the 9-3SS, a completely different and stiffer drive! Saab did it well, using this platform. SaabGuy
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