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Re: I actually agree . . .
Posted by James (more from James) on Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:27:26
In Reply to: Re: I actually agree . . ., Reality, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 05:47:28

I suppose the situation in the US is a little more extreme then... the levels of college debts, the incomes of profs etc...

True, IBM + Bell labs did significant fundamental research, at least on the engineering side (much signal processing work came out of Bell labs!)... Up here, Nortel and others fed money back to university research programs (great way to train new employees)... one of the cooler private investments was from RIM founder Mike Lazaridis, starting an institute to fund theoretical physics out of his own pocket... so I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but most private funding is targeted.

wrt "design by test", I mean nominal design that effectively leaves things to figure out in "the lab" that don't need to be... I'll give a simple "hypothetical" example: A mech eng designs a box with a recessed lid. Orders a sample or 2. Lids fit. Great. Supply management orders a few thousand from multiple vendors for production. Many lids don't fit even though they meet spec (so can't RMA). Scrap. why? different batch related tolerance stackups starting at the centerline of the flat head screws wrt thru holes. The original sample testing only proved the lids fit in that 1 case (in fact, the sample was a complete waste of time + money imho, yeah, it's a box, so what? what does the "test" prove?)... tolerance stackup was improperly calculated from the get go (or more often, not calculated at all due to laziness: nominal design). If you do it right, you can order a million boxes + lids from different suppliers + never have a problem. They will always fit or they get RMA'd. No need to test (though it will be "tested" on the line anyway, so better get it right!)... of course the same applies in all disciplines of engineering, even the more sophisticated stuff. Engineering is the application of known science to make new stuff... Things that are not (efficiently) calculable often benefit from lab work, but the engineer doing so had better be damn careful they don't fall into the design by test traps! Anything that can be calculated should be + any experimentation should be very cautious wrt the impact of potential uncertainties. When process tolerances are unknown, it is critical to figure them out (and hopefully thereby find ways to tighten them) vs ignoring them + design by test...

(yeah, that one's a pet peeve... sorry for the rant! my point was that industry is far from being immune from apathy...)

James...

posted by 216.59.242...

Posts in this Thread:

OT: Space shuttle, Eric Law, Fri, 8 Jul 2011 05:53:10
- Please..., Eric Law, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 04:46:52
  - Re: Please..., EGD , Wed, 13 Jul 2011 11:20:06
- Re: OT: Space shuttle, brick8 , Fri, 8 Jul 2011 12:09:07
- I'll cheer..., nwas, Fri, 8 Jul 2011 08:34:19
  - It's been quite a while, AdamB , Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:33:51
    - Re: It's been quite a while, Reality, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:49:37
  - I guess we should all still be living in caves......, MI-Roger , Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:06:57
    - That would be the result, Reality, Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:56:06
      - Re: That would be the result, Eric Law, Sun, 10 Jul 2011 18:10:50
        Re: That would be the result, Reality, Sun, 10 Jul 2011 21:37:54
        Re: That would be the result, James, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 06:51:50
        Re: That would be the result, Reality, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:30:03
        Perhaps..., Eric Law, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 04:43:19
        Re: Perhaps..., TML, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:40:16
        Yeah, Eric Law, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 04:12:02
        Made up facts indeed, Reality, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 13:03:30
        Re: Perhaps..., Reality, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:43:36
        Furthermore, Reality, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 12:20:09
        Re: Perhaps..., Reality, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 12:06:32
        Uh..., Eric Law, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 14:39:02
        Re: Uh..., Reality, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:08:54
        Re: Uh..., kkelley, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 15:12:11
        Timinger problem, Reality, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:57:22
        Re: Timinger problem, kkelley, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 18:31:49
        "I took the initiative in creating the internet", Reality, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 21:27:25
        Re: "I took the initiative in creating the internet", kkelley, Thu, 14 Jul 2011 06:46:08
        Re: "I took the initiative in creating the internet", Reality, Thu, 14 Jul 2011 08:44:26
        Re: "I took the initiative in creating the internet", kkelley, Thu, 14 Jul 2011 11:31:47
        Re: "I took the initiative in creating the internet", Reality, Thu, 14 Jul 2011 12:01:11
  - Agree!, Reality, Fri, 8 Jul 2011 16:36:58
    - Microwave, Comsat, GPS, Reality, Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:11:59
      - oversimplifications..., James, Sat, 9 Jul 2011 06:38:03
        Valuation depends on alternatives, Reality, Sat, 9 Jul 2011 07:15:30
        if NASA had not existed..., James, Sat, 9 Jul 2011 10:18:32
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., Reality, Sat, 9 Jul 2011 13:48:37
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., AdamB , Tue, 12 Jul 2011 11:27:51
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., Reality, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 13:30:39
        oh, and one more thing..., James, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 09:51:29
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., James, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 07:25:24
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., Reality, Wed, 13 Jul 2011 12:48:45
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., James, Sun, 10 Jul 2011 03:47:19
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., Reality, Sun, 10 Jul 2011 06:10:56
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., James, Sun, 10 Jul 2011 06:39:19
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., Reality, Sun, 10 Jul 2011 15:17:23
        Re: if NASA had not existed..., James, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 03:36:29
        I actually agree . . ., Reality, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 12:29:36
        Re: I actually agree . . ., James, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:33:09
        Re: I actually agree . . ., Reality, Mon, 11 Jul 2011 20:07:49
        oh, and one more thing..., James, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 03:35:12
        Re: I actually agree . . ., James, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 01:51:08
        Re: I actually agree . . ., Reality, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 05:47:28
        Re: I actually agree . . ., James, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:27:26
        Re: I actually agree . . ., Reality, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:44:49
        Re: I actually agree . . ., James, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 08:48:16
        Re: I actually agree . . ., Reality, Tue, 12 Jul 2011 09:31:30
        the only thing dumber that the moon trips..., nwas, Sat, 9 Jul 2011 16:59:06
        Whoops... that should have been, nwas, Sat, 9 Jul 2011 17:00:37
  - Re: I'll cheer..., TML, Fri, 8 Jul 2011 14:20:12
  - I think I can handle 0.5% of the federal budget, rob 96 aero, Fri, 8 Jul 2011 11:27:00
    - It's not a lot of money in the big picture. But..., Noel , Sat, 9 Jul 2011 05:20:49
    - Waste is Waste; It all needs to be cut, nwas, Fri, 8 Jul 2011 19:13:25
  - Re: I'll cheer..., NCCaniac , Fri, 8 Jul 2011 09:26:41

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