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K&N Observations from SCCA NER Solo2 list (long) Posted by TonyJ [Email]  (#407)  [Profile/Gallery]
(more from TonyJ) on Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:14:08
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I found the K&N discussions interesting, so I posted a link on an automotive mailing list (New England region SCCA Autocross) that I belong to. I use K&N on my race car and my Acura RS-X TypeS, but not on our 2 Saab 9000s. Following are some responses:
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Kinda reminds me of the ol' oil-filter "brand vs type of filter vs performance" discussions I see now and then on the tuner boards... "just change your filter's on a regular basis, dammit"...(kids these days; they never listen)
Will a K&N (or any "performance" filter) give me 4/40 hp (or whatever). Highly doubtful (unless my current af was gummed solid as concrete, but then one is "regaining" hp lost from the baseline)
A K&N will flow more air, and maybe that will help at select rpm ranges "over a factory unit" and "on some engines", but I venture a fair number of performance cars already have K&N style "factory" af's, so yes, an add-on K&N in those instances will have no advantage. (But you do get a neat sticker, and THAT will make you faster)
Simply by stating that an element like that can be "more harmful" in allowing more particulates may be stretching things. More airflow does not necessarily equate with more dirt.
However, he did mention the oil and possible effect on the MAF sensors...I find that of interest...
Eddie "just a layman's view" Savage
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Tony:
This is not far fetched. I am not sure if you remember her but a former NER autocrosser Deb Waddell's mother was a former co-owner of S&B filters (a K&N competitor and maker of private label washable filters including the Fram Power Hog.) I toured the plant a few years ago and she said that they never claim that thier filters made more power because they didn't! They even sued K&N about falsly publishing test data that said K&N's filters performed better than S&B's. (S&B won the case or settled out of court by proving the test results were rigged.) Deb's mom also said that the cotton ellement alone is not as good a filter medium as a good paper filter. The oil and cotton element together work to catch the smaller particals. This leads me to believe that the "better" flow numbers are with an un-oiled filter.
I have a K&N on the A Mod car but do not oil it. Keeps the big stuff out.
Bob B.
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Just read the Post on K&N filters. It is quite sad to read what supposed "engineers" have to say about these filters. Whenever a test is performed, the boundary condittions are most important. The "NASA Engineer" is ignoring some very important boundary conditions in his statement. For what it is worth, here are some facts to consider:
K&N filters flow more air than paper filters for most cars. Notice that last part. The poster was talking about a 928 Porsche which has a stock filter which is huge, yielding good flow with low delta pressure across the element, as long as the filter is resonably clean. The stock Porsche element will also filter smaller particles than the K&N. This is definitely not true of aftermarket (non- Mann) copies.With the exception of some heavy use truck airboxes, such as the one on my Silverado, few cars have this level of detail design. In most cars and trucks the K&N will flow more air and clean it longer.
The 928 has the air intake in a very good spot for cool air. It is also in a very bad spot for clean air. Bad marks to P on this feature.
K&N Filters allow particles about 20% larger through their matrix than paper filters, expecting to trap the smaller particles in the oil coating. Oiling the filter correctly is very important. Most people over oil. This leads to the contamination problems mentioned. Do it right, there is no problem.
A properly serviced K&N filter is usually an improvement item on any street car. Follow the the directions (an engineer took the time to write them!) and I expect you will be pleased.
Bill "used them on all race cars, bikes and street cars for 20 years" Gendron
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Before buying a K&N for the Neon, I did some low quality research (i.e. in the internet). Bill's comments are very much in line with Bill's comments. I found some very damaging reports, but they where of mining equipment where the K&N filters where getting clogged and dried out by dust. Based on what I could find, I concluded that a properly serviced K&N would probably keep my motor cleaner than the stock Chrysler paper filter. That is why I bought one, not because I thought I'd get any useful HP boost.
I still have doubts as to where the truth falls, but I'm pretty sure that the test will have to be carefully staged to check their performance under a specific usage pattern and mining equipment doesn't count.
The posting in the Porsche forum on roadfly.com (linked at the bottom of the original link) looks more relevant and possibly accurate. However, I have my doubts.
Cheers!
Ty
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Tony,
I have heard of problems with oil from gauze and foam filters harming MAFs, and supposedly there are TSBs from some auto manufacturers on the subject. Of course, improperly excessive lubrication after cleaning may be the cause--another case of the nut behind the wheel.
Another, probably very minor, consideration is the deposition of an oil film on the interior walls of intercoolers in turbocharged vehicles. Doubly not good for heat transfer: acts as an insulating layer and reduces effective surface area by filling in small voids. Definitely not worth worrying about, though, if you have a PCV/breather plumbed into the intake tract ahead of the intercooler--that could coat it a lot worse than the air filter.
Ray
, Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:14:08 <-- Viewing This Message
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