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Here's a BB summary on stalling I used a while ago:
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Posted by Dan L (more from Dan L) on Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:16:51 Share Post by Email
In Reply to: Help...Stalling, MG, Fri, 8 Jun 2001 18:23:57
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I had the same problem on my car, also a '87 9000T. I did three things, that completely solved the problem, and you have checked two of them, so perhaps the third will be the key. I replaced the 'hooter' valve (with the upgraded version, of course), cleaned out the AIC with some 'Air Intake Cleaner' I think it was called (basically Carb cleaner, but specified as safe for fuel injected vehicles as well), and also cleanned out the throttle butterfly with same cleaner. Now the AIC I had done before, and also had replaced the hooter once before, but this was the first time I cleaned out the throttle body. Just take off the big air intake hose, spray the cleaner in, then as you move the throttle (causing the butterfly valve to move), spray more cleaner in. I pretty much soaked the inside of the throttle body with this stuff. Then wipe it out with a clean lint free rag, I got quite a bit of black gunk out of there.

After that, my throttle needed to be slightly adjusted to provide the correct idle, but the dropping rpm/near stall was totally gone. Now if I put the clutch in, rpms just drop slowly to the proper idle speed.

Worth a shot, looks like you have checked or changed everything else! Another thing I've heard of that might cause a similar problem is the 'decel dashpot'. I believe it has something to do with how fast the rpms drop when you put the clutch in. I could find only minor reference to it in the Haynes manual, so frankly I don't know where it is...has not been replaced in my car yet though.

Good luck!


* the main problem:
-- when driving anytime it goes under ~ 2000 rpm it is rough
its almost like the "bucking" you experience if you shift too soon
as if you don't know how to drive stick well and you are shifting too
soon- but never had trouble before with the car
-- in higher RPMs there is no shortage of pep. Runs great
-- in the lower end of each gear when rpm dips after shifting

* possibly unrelated problem:

-- it idles smoothly (~ 900rpm) when not moving
-- if you rev the engine then let go it stumbles, shakes and almost stalls
-- unplugging the AIC valve actually make this happen less, so I (apparently incorrectly) assumed the the AIC was definitely the
problem- and replaced it (after multiple seeming unsuccessful cleanings)
-- this still happens after replacing the AIC

* Things that we have done:
-- checked vacumn hoses
-- changed spark plugs
-- changed wires
-- changed rotor
-- changed distributor cap
-- changed aic valve
-- changed little rubber thing
-- changed oil and filter
-- changed air filter

* solutions?
-- i'm planning on double checking the gaps on the spark plugs when i
get home - does this seem like a possibilty?

-- anything else?


.:bg
1987 9000 turbo

You didn't say if it is a turbo but if it is.
'next thing to check is the turbo bypass valve, If the diaphram is bad, it will give you the stumble...die routine after letting the trottle close quickly. In it's raw form it is just a nasty vacuume leak.

I did say its a turbo, at the very end, and I wouldn't blame anyone who got bored before they reached the bottom of that monstrosity of an message I wrote. But, I have checked the hooter. Also, forgot to mention on my list of things that I've done- fuel filter. Thanks for any help guys. Too cold to check plug gaps tonight- that will have to wait until tomorrow.

Also check the throttle return damper(not sure of the name of it).
It´s the little diagramhousing with a small spring on it(mounted on the butterfly valve housing) that´s makes the butterfly valve moves smothly back against stop after you release it.
It shuold take around 3-4 seconds from 3000 rpm down to idle 875 rpm.


In Reply to: 91 9kT stalling at low revs, John Adams, Sun, 6 May 2001 22:34:44

Stickying AIC Valve? Disassemble throttle body and use carb cleaner and old toothbrush to de-gunk the inside from PCV system carbon sludge, also de-gunk AIC valve and sling out any excess cleaner.

Check all vacuum lines, replace _all_ if any are brittle or you see cracks (once one's gone, the rest are close behind. Use silicon to replace for longer life in the future).

Check DI cassette - pull and look for oil from the coils leaked into the area around the plugs. If any are leaking, replace the DI cassette. Even if not, the "bucking" can be symptomatic of a bad DI.

In Reply to: 89 9000 cdt wants to stall when first put into gear?, chad, Sun, 6 May 2001 20:59:42

May want to clean AIC valve, but you probably need to recalibrate the throttle position sensor. The townsend site is were I learned how to do it.
Not hard as they give good directions. This problem would also show up if your rpms dipped when you came to stop sign and let off the accelerator. I also am begining to wonder if really dirty injectors cause pronounce hesitation or even stalling when the engine is cold. So this could also be a problem. None of these costs any money to fix. Just time and maybe a little cleaning solution.


In Reply to: MAP sensors, mass air flow sensor, need some understanding, adam, Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:19:35

this route. Boost controllers disable the boost control system Saab has
engineered into their Trionic ECU.
I would really stay away from the set-up that puts a bleed screw in the MAP
sensor line. That "trick" will result in lean fuel mixtures under high boost
and could result in engine damage

I can help a little describing some functions.

The MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor is a pressure-to-voltage converter.
At X psi pressure on it's inlet, it supplies Y volts on it's output.
The output of the MAP sensor is feed to the ECU (engine control unit).
In the ECU the current pressure is compared with the limit pressure (really a voltage level)
programmed in a ROM in the ECU. If the pressure is higher than the set max
pressure, the fuel cut-off is enabled.

The MAP sensor out put is also used to determine the proper mixture when the
motor is under boost. Higher boost requires more fuel to prevent spark knock. Fuel mixture is determined by a bunch of variables, MAP sensor,
inlet air temperature, motor RPM, transmission gear, etc. All these sensors
are used to determine the proper mixture under boost. When the motor is not
on boost, the oxygen sensor is also used to determine the mixture.

As you can see, the MAP sensor is an integral part of the engine management
system. If you put a bleed valve in the MAP sensor you may increase the
boost you will get before fuel cut-off, but you will also be causing the
motor to run lean and a lean mixture will lead to detonation and detonation
will lead to holes in the pistons.

I do not understand how swedish dynamics sells the bleed valves in good conscience.

Both systems use a bleed valve in the wastegate actuator line. One happens
to use it with the APC/BPC valve functioning, the other disables the valve by
plumbing around it.
The system with the BPC valve just bleeds pressure from the actuator hose,
essentially causing the wastegate to open later than the ECU desires. The
effect of this bleed valve is to reduce the gain of the boost control system.
Too much pressure bleed will result in lack of control

The HBC eliminates the APC/BPC valve completely. With the HBC, the ECU does
not have ANY control over boost.

Both controllers can raise boost pressures, but they eliminate the safety
measures that protect the motor from potential damage. If you inadvertantly
filled you tank with 87 octane fuel, after you had set up you boost controllers
on 93 octane, you could be looking at dangerous detonation.

Saab uses the most sophisticated engine control system in production. Installing a bleed valve or a boost controller compromise this system.

If you want more power, the best, safest, and the system that produces the
most gain, is an ECU upgrade from a reputable tuner. Abbott is the more
common one here, but many others exist in Sweden.

Adam, you must get your low boost problem fixed before contemplating any mods.

I have had many "discussions" with Dean on the other BB. He is a very
evangelical proponent of boost controllers, HBC in particular. He seems to
have all the answers. Ultimately the decision is yours.
Is it worth $100 to get 14-15 psi of somewhat questional boost from a HBC,
or spend $900 and get 16-18 psi of safe boost that uses all of the ECU's
control functions.

jj
'95 Abbott insired Aero



93 2.3 Turbo low rpm hesitation/stumbling prior to warmup
Posted by Jeff Brokaw (more from Jeff Brokaw) on Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:52:40

Just got the car, 170k miles, but in great shape and runs good, EXCEPT when the engine is cold, when it hesitates/stumbles going upwards from idle to 2k rpms or so. After warmup, problem seems to disappear. Idle seems to hunt hi/lo/hi/lo during this time too, though not always, and this may be a different problem and I'm not so concerned about it anyway.

This weekend I cleaned and inspected all the hoses, all look good, no obvious vacuum leaks found (yet). I removed the air intake hose from the throttle body and squirted some carb cleaner in the t.b., some gunk ran out, seems to have helped, but not totally fixed, so may need to go in there again and take it apart further, to allow fully opening the "butterfly valve" or whatever that thing is called all the way and clean that whole pathway even better. But if this was the source of the problem, wouldn't it remain after engine warmup?

Any other ideas? The big clue is it happens when cold, and stops upon warmup. Thanks in advance!

Jeff

i have had a problem like that you can try to clean the throttle body as well as try another mass air flow sensor, if that does not work think about the 02 sensor

Having a dirty throttle body could cause you problem, but unfortunatly so could a lot of things. I'd also clean your AMM while you're at it and AIC valve, but I have no idea where this is on a 2.3l engine. I'd also suspect a vacuum leak, so read on.

Cleaning:
-Go to a parts/discount store and pick up a bottle of carb cleaner, have an old tooth brush and rag handy.

-Take a look at the engine: at the top of the engine the bare aluminum piece with the four intake runners comming out of it is the intake manifold. On the right (drivers side) of this you will see a device the connects to the intake manifold on one side and a big rubber intake hose of the other. It also has a cable going to the gas pedal. This is the throttle body.

-Simply disconnect the big rubber hose by undoing the clamp and popping it off. Take a look inside, you see the big butterfly valve which you can open and close with the throttle mounted to the side of the throttle body.

-Spray in some carb cleaner and clean it with the tooth brush, do this with the butterfly valve open and close. Wipe up the mess with the rag. It's okay if you don't get it all, but the engine might hesitate the first time you start it up.

Your AMM is located on the intake tract of the engine inline with the big air pipe at the near the front drivers side of the car. It Is aluminum with a black square on top and has a big plug coming out of it. You can just unplug it, undo the hose clamps, and pull it out. A bit easier said than done, so be careful not to pull any wires or hoses out. Simply spray it out and re-install.

Vacuum leaks:
Vacuum hoses are all of the little hoses that run fron the intake manifold to a bunch of diferent places. Make sure all of these are in darn good shape. Replace if in doubt, the correct size is 3mm and you can get new hose at a parts store. Specific problems are the "Hooter valve" which is a small black cannister near the AMM that connects to two big hoses and one small vacuum hoses. To check pull the small vavuum hose from the Y-connector and suck on it, if you can draw air the valve is bad. Also, the charcoal cannister is a problem. Remove the passenger side turn signal (very easy, one bolt) and make sure all the hoses are still connecter.

This will get you started anyway. My money is on a vacuum leak, but they cna be darn hard to track down.

Craig

I have a 1993 Saab 9000 CS non-turbo. It is my second saab (the other was a 1988 9000 non-turbo) I am only 19 and just beginning to work on cars. My 93 has begun to have problems when I start it. It cranks to life fine, but, until it gets warm, whenever I step on the gas the RPM's drop and the engine sputters. It idles normally until I step on the gas. Someone told me that the throttle body might need cleaning. I dont know how to do this. I would appreciate some help in attempting this (Since I am a beginner, I need simple directions). If anyone does not think it is the throttle body, then any other suggestions would help.

In Reply to: On startup at idle. Read Quasi's info, suspect vacuum, brad, Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:40:40

you can try cleaning the butterfly fly on the throttle bottle. Mine car would kind of dip every so often down to like 500 or so and then return to normal. Just took off the black intake pipe connected to it, started the car, had a friend hold the engine around 2-3 thousand and sprayed throttle cleaner until I thought I'd used enough, that cured it.
But if you're problem started suddenly and hasn't been going on for a while, that's an unlikely cause. Still it never hurts to have a clean, well sealing butterfly valve. And it only costs $3 for the cleaner.
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