1994-2002 [Subscribe to Daily Digest] |
DEAN ET AL, LET ME TAKE THESE ONE AT A TIME OKAY? I'LL USE UPPERCASE TO DISTINGUISH ME FROM YOU (NOT YELLING, SO FORGIVE IT THIS ONCE OKAY?)
Pull the plugs your self and inspect them. The deposits and color tell you whats going on in the cumbustion chambers. Note any cyliner to cylinder variations.
BRAND NEW SAAB PLUGS PUT IN AT MY 125K SERVICE. RESET MY SID WHEN I GOT IT BACK. A WEEK LATER I STILL SHOW 20MPG AVG.
How is the power? How is starting?
IT'S A NON-TURBO, BUT THE POWER IS ABOUT WHERE IT ALWAYS WAS, A LITTLE WORSE BECAUSE I HAVE A LEAK IN MY FRONT/CENTER MUFFLER WHICH I WILL BE CHANGING OUT WHEN MY NEWLY ORDERED ONE FROM TROLLHATAN ARRIVES IN A WEEK OR SO. COULD A LEAKY MUFFLER MAKE MPG THIS MUCH WORSE?
STARTING IS WITHIN A SECOND OF TURNING THE KEY AS IT ALWAYS WAS...MAYBE ONCE OR TWICE IN THE WINTER I HAD A FAILED START...3 SECONDS BEFORE I GAVE UP SCRATCHED MY HEAD, TRIED AGAIN AND IT FIRED. BUT 99% OF THE TIME, IT'S WITHIN A SECOND...JUST FINE.
The injectors can be cleaned with Techron Concentrate which will also clean the injectors. Use two consecutive treated tanks if not done before, or you can pay to have the power cleaning done.
I HAVE PUT IN STP INJECTOR CLEANER ABOUT A MONTH BEFORE MY 125K SERVICE, AND HAVE SWITCHED TO CHEVRON PLUS INSTEAD OF CRAPPY AARCO GAS WHICH I USED WHEN PRICES WERE HIGH. STILL 20MPG.
Were you using low octane fuel? That will foul the injectors and the combustion chamber more than higher grades of fuel.
WHEN PRICES WERE VERY HIGH (ESP. IN OREGON, AMONG THE NATIONS WORST AT ONE POINT THERE, NEXT ONLY TO HAWAII) I ADMIT, I USED THE CHEAPEST GAS I COULD GET. DOES THAT MEAN I SHOULD PAY FOR IT NOW IN THE FORM OF A MOTORVAC?
Bad spray patterns and engine deposits may be creating conditions where the knock sensor caused the ECU to detune the ignition timing.
THAT'S WHY I WAS CONSIDERING THE MOTORVAC...THOUGHT MY FUEL/AIR MIXTURE DUE TO CLOGGY CRAP IN THE INJECTORS MIGHT BE THE CULPRIT...I HAVEN'T REALLY SHOPPED AROUND BUT ONE PRICE FOR MOTORVAC HERE IS $90 JUST SO YOU KNOW.
After you clean the injectors and deal with the plugs, you might want to have a compression test done.
TO SAVE MONEY, I GUESS THE ORDER OF OPERATIONS MATTERS TO ME. KNOWING NOW THAT I HAVE NEW SAAB PLUGS, DO YOU THINK I SHOULD DO MOTORVAC FIRST OR TEST O2 SENSOR (YOU DON'T SEEM TO THINK THAT'S THE CULPRIT) OR TEST COMPRESSION (DEALER ONLY???) FIRST?
Which brings to mind oil consumption. Burning oil?
NO SMELLS OR SMOKE IF THAT'S WHAT YOU MEAN...PROBABLY YOU MEANT THE LEVEL...I DON'T CHECK THE OIL A LOT SINCE I GET IT CHANGED RELIGIOUSLY EVERY 4000 (IT'S DINO OIL), BUT I KNOW I'M NOT LEAKING, AND SINCE I HAD IT CHANGED RECENTLY, THE LEVEL IS GOOD (AS IT HAS BEEN EVERY TIME I *HAVE* CHECKED IT -- THOUGH I HADN'T CHECKED TOO RECENTLY BEFORE THAT SERVICE, ALAS). SO MY GUESS IS THAT I AM *NOT* BURNING ANY OIL, BUT I WILL BE DILLIGENT AND CHECK THAT EVERY MONTH FROM NOW ON. WHAT DOES THAT TELL US?
Also check for problems with VAC lines.
HOW EXACTLY? JUST LISTEN FOR SILLIBANCE/TURBULANCE/AIR RUSHES AROUND SOME LINES? WHICH LINES AND WHERE ARE THEY...I WILL **TRY** TO DO THAT AND REPORT BACK ON THIS.
That takes care of power creatation.
Perhaps you have a draging brake pad. You need to check that all of the pads have even wear, inboard VS outboard. See that the rear pads are free to move in the caliper slots and that all 4 pistons are free. On the front also check that the sliding caliper is free to move or float.
DURING THE 125K DEALER MAJOR SERVICE, THEY TOOK ALL THE TIRES OFF TO ROTATE THEM AND "CHECKED" THE BRAKES. WHAT THEY SAID WAS, "WEAR IS GOOD. 8MM ON THE REARS, 5MM ON THE FRONTS." THAT'S ALL THOUGH, THEY DIDN'T SAY INBOARD VS. OUTBOARD WEAR OR WHATEVER. HOWEVER, THEY DO SQUEAK A LITTLE FROM TIME TO TIME, WHEN APPLIED, AND WHEN THEY WERE FIRST INSTALLED AND FOR ABOUT 4 MONTHS (OVER A YEAR AGO) I FELT A LITTLE BUMPINESS IN THE PEDAL THAT MADE ME WONDER IF THE ROTORS WERE WARPED, BUT THAT WENT AWAY MORE OR LESS (STRANGE, AND PROBABLY IRRELEVANT, BUT I THOUGHT I'D PUT ALL THE FACTS BEFORE YOU AND LET YOU DECIDE).
Exhaust restrictions can reduce mpg's. A loose and shifted baffle or a fouled cat converter.
WELL, BACK TO MY LEAKING FRONT MUFFLER. THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF A RESTRICTION IS IT NOT? SHOULD BE MORE LIKE A DRAGSTER! :) KIDDING. IT'S A LITTLE LOUDER, AND I'M REPLACING IT NEXT WEEKEND MYSELF. BTW, CAN I USE MY EXISTING BRACKETS OR DO I NEED NEW BRACKETS IF SO, HOW MANY. I TAKE IT. IT'S A PRETTY EASY JOB (MY DAD HAS A CAR PIT AT WORK WE CAN USE WHICH MAKES IT EASY TO WORK UNDER THERE).
Could the O2 sensor be bad. Yes, but these very often last much longer, and many a sensor has been replaced the had a poor ground contact but was good otherwise. These can be backed out, the down pipe contact interface cleaned and the senor reseated.
I NOTICED SOMEONE ELSE WAS WONDERING ABOUT HOW TO DO THIS IN A SEPARATE THREAD. MAYBE SOMEONE (FOR INSTANCE, YOU :) WOULD CONSIDER POSTING INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE MORTALS LIKE US ON HOW TO DO THAT PROCEDURE: BY BACK IT OUT, DO YOU MEAN COMPLETELY REMOVE, THEN CLEAN CONTACTS, THE RE-SEAT OR WHAT EXACTLY? REMEMBER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE O2 SENSOR EVEN LOOKS LIKE, BUT NONETHELESS *AM* COMFORTABLE DOING ELECTRONICS AND SOME MECHANICAL STUFF (LIMITTED).
The signal ground is via the manifold and pipe... which is standard practice but a rather stupid design.
REALLY? IT'S GROUND LINE IS STRAPPED TO THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD? AND BY 'PIPE' DO YOU MEAN THE PIPE LEADING TO THE CAT. CONVERTER? I'LL LOOK FOR THAT...TONIGHT.
A 33% loss in mpg's is huge.
NO SHIT. :) I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. IT DIDN'T REALLY GET ANY WORSE. IT'S JUST AT 20MPG FOR THE LAST YEAR STEADY EVEN A WEEK AFTER MY 125K SERVICE, WHICH I BLINDLY HOPED WOULD FIX IT. I WONDER WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE GETTING ON THEIR 2.3 NA'S?
I would expect that the ECU would rase a cel is the O2 sensor was the cause. Do check the plugs, that is a first step, and ensure that the injectors are clean etc.
BY $90 MOTORVAC, OR BY POURING MORE $5 BOTTLES OF ADDATIVES INTO EACH FULL TANK?
The dealer could also check the exhaust gas for CO etc and detect issues that way too.
I'M A LITTLE PISSED AT SPENDING $500-$600 THERE AND REALLY FEELING LIKE THEY JUST CHANGED OILS, TRANNY FLUID, SPARK PLUGS, FILTERS AND WASHER FLUID. I THINK THIS IS MAKING ME WANT TO READ "HOWSTUFFWORKS" AND BUY A SAAB MOTOR/SERVICE BOOK FOR MY 1996 900S (PLEASE RECOMMEND ONE)AND BECOME SELF-SUFFICIENT TO SOME EXTENT AT LEAST...IF NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED. AT LEAST SOME GOOD WOULD COME OF THIS AND YOU WILL HAVE HELPED BOOTSTRAP ANOTHER SAAB OWNER INTO A SELF-SUFFICIENT MAINTAINER!
THANKS DEAN (SO FAR AND IN ADVANCE)!
posted by 206.163.8...
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