very long detailed response - Saab Performance Bulletin Board - Saabnet.com
The banner above is an advertisment - if it asks you to download software, please ignore.
Site News - 7/1: Members: Log In to See Fewer Ads! | 5/28: SAAB Evolutions/TSN T-Shirts $14

[General | Members | C900 | 9000 | NG900 & OG93 | 93 | 95 | NG95 | 99 | Sonett | Vintage Models | Clubs | Other Cars | FAQs | Gifts | Member Photo Galleries | Member Directory | Classifieds | Manuals | *Buddy Registry | *Mileage Registry | Polls | What's New | Raffle | Photo of the Month | Sponsors]

Performance Bulletin Board
[Subscribe to Daily Digest]
(Search Author's Posts: e.g. Keyword:username)*Members Only


[Main Performance Bulletin Board | BBFAQ | Prev by Date | Next by Date | Post Followup ] Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
very long detailed response
Like This Post: - Subscribe to Daily Digest for this Bulletin Board
Posted by Dean [Email] (more from Dean) on Sun, 27 Nov 2005 11:04:35 Share Post by Email
In Reply to: suspension upgrades what about bushings?, tturboboy, Sun, 27 Nov 2005 08:33:18
Alert me when someone posts in this thread:
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup

The (NG900/OG9-3)system has way too much rubber in it.

First thing to do is to install the heavy rear sway bar. This eliminates some nasty roll-steer artifacts from the steering. It is very effective. (It does not make the rear end more comfortable.) This makes sense as the most cost effective mod, and very simple to intall.

With the above the steering geometry will work much better, but the front end does need changes. The steering rack needs a clamp-brace kit.

The split A arm control arm setup is connected with a hollow oil filled rubber bushing that really sucks. To replace the lateral control arm needs to be removed, then the bushing can be pressed out and subjected to other implements of destruction. Then a poly bushing can be installed. The bushing at the subframe can also be removed and replaced with a quite hard poly bushing. Replacement of the bushing at the end of the arm that runs fore-aft is also important to avoid deflection of the toe-in from braking or acceleration forces. Abbott makes a steel sherical bearing for that.

These things do have a pronounced benefit. The bushings are not expensive, but the labor to press out the old ones and install new new is significant. The only steps that are common to the strut insert work is popping the ball joint stud and removal of the sway bar link. The sway bar bushing can also be replaced with poly but that has a disproportionate amount of work, expecially for DIY. The R&R of bushings is also not suitable for most DIY folks.

When you eliminate the rubber bushings, you remove the things that defected in response to the forces generated by toe-in, so that the effective toe-in when driving down the road was less than the static setting. The tires also deform to absorb some of the toe-in. When the bushings are hardened up, the much of the static toe-in is preserved when driving and that can be excessive. The toe-in settings should be reduced as the suspection bushings are firmed up. If you do not do this, then the tires will fight each other too much which will increase wear and/or create adverse wear pattern defects. In heavy rain or on ice or slush, the tires will then be in a situation where only one tires at a time will want to track properly. That could have dangerous consequences. That been said, one wants some toe-in forces to build a preload into the tire body so that steering inputs will produce an instant response, otherwise the response can feel vague/wrong.

Comfort: Most road induced vibrations are vertical and the control arm bushings are to-the-side and will not induce any increases in vibration or shock at all. The vertical loads go through the tires, bearings,steering knuckle, springs and shocks to the upper mount. The shock transmitted load vibrations go through the center of the upper mount and to its rubber surround. Note that that vertical load path does not go through the control arm bushings at all. The loads do not even go through the ball joint.

You need to replace the strut upper mounts which may be tired and cracking by now. When you fix up the suspension, you will be cornering much harder than the system was able to do in stock trim. The upper mounts do get subjected to substantial reaction forces with this increased cornering ability. I would not want to subject old mounts to those increased loads. Replacing those later is almost the same labor cost/effort as installing the struts.

Tires will become increasingly important as the limiting factor in handling. Lesser tires with higher wear ratings that scrub in the corners will wear faster than a performance tire that grips well.

As you improve the suspension, the subframe deflection becomes a limiting factor. We have seen some very good reports about the 6 point SF braces. Again, you will be increasing cornering deflection forces and the SF deflection then increases.

The Koni install suggests adding antifreeze to the strut tube to act as a heat disipation coupling fluid. I do not like that idea. I used engine oil instead. Also, the Koni insert retaining nut is very difficult to tighen up! If is gets loose, you get noise and have to remove the strut to fix that. I went through that. I then degreased the threads of the nut and the tube and used a generous amount of loctite blue.

The front struts have not enough vertical travel before you hit or are riding on the bump stops. If one lowers the springs, things get worse. This is also the major cause of bent wheels as the suspenstion goes "solid". If you cut off the lower "bulb" of the bump stops, which is probably a bit more than an inch, then the strut travel is increased and the shocks can then absorb forces over that increased distance. My experience is that this improved the ride response when things got tough. Not many folks have done this. I did that while using the stock 95SET springs+Konis+VRK.


Posts in this Thread:
Alert me when someone posts in this thread:
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup
Post a Followup

No Site Registration is Required to Post - Site Membership is optional (Member Features List), but helps to keep the site online
for all Saabers. If the site helps you, please consider helping the site by becoming a member.

Name: Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
E-Mail: (Optional)
Re-Enter E-Mail: (Confidential & Secure - Not revealed to other users!)
Note: Please check your spam folder for BB responses.

Subject:

Posting rules are simple - No for sale/wanted ads may be posted here - use the site classifieds.
You may not cross-post your message to multiple BBs.
Not permitted: political/religious topics and being disrespectful (personal attacks, insults, etc...).
Site Members do not see any red text, inline ad links, bottom of page anchor ads, box ads, or anti-spam check.

Message: (please no for sale/wanted classifieds - post those in the Saabnet.com Classifieds)
Links are now automatically made active, no need for any special code (or use the Option Link field below) - don't put links in () or end with a '.'
To add inline images to your post, use [img]http://www.domain.com/img.jpg[endimg] (or use the Optional Image Link field below).


Links are now automatically made active, no need for any special code (or use the Option Link field below) - don't put links in () or end with a '.'
To add inline images to your post above, use [img]http://www.domain.com/img.jpg[endimg] (or use the Optional Image Link field below).

Optional Link: (e.g. http://www.saabnet.com/)
Link Title: (Optional)
Optional Photo/Image Link: (e.g. http://www.saabnet.com/img.jpg)
Photo/Image to Upload: (Please be patient while file uploads)





StateOfNine.com
SaabClub.com
Jak Stoll Performance
M Car Covers
Ad Available

The content on this site may not be republished without permission. Copyright © 1988-2024 - The Saab Network - saabnet.com.
For usage guidelines, see the Mission & Privacy Notice.
[Contact | Site Map | Saabnet.com on Facebook | Saabnet.com on Twitter | Shop Amazon via TSN | Site Donations]

Random Saabnet.com Member Gallery Photos (Click Image)

This is a moderated bulletin board - Posting is a privilege, not a right. Unsolicited commercial postings are not allowed (no spam). Please, no For Sale or Wanted postings, SERIOUSLY. Classifieds are to be listed in The Saab Network Classifieds pages. This is a problem solving forum for over 250,000 Saab owners, so expect to see problems discussed here even though our cars are generally very reliable. This is not an anything goes type of forum. Saabnet.com has been a moderated forum since 1988. For usage guidelines, see the Saabnet.com Mission and Purpose Page. Please remember that you are not anonymous. Site Contact | Site Donations | Other Sites by SP - Poverty2Prosperity.org | Run Club Menlo Park | ScreenBot



Site Members do not see red text instructions, bottom of the page anchor ads, or box ads.
Click here to see all the Site Membership Benefits!