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This is the same post as in the 9-5 board, please ignore if read before.
Thank you.
I finally got the full stage 3 installed from Taliaferro on my 2000 9-5 Aero 5speed at 77,000 miles and I would like to compare some notes with other stage 3 installation owners.
A little history on my car. 3 years ago when I purchased the car it had 47,000 miles. I drove the car for a few months to get used to it, I enjoyed the power a lot since my last two SAABs where naturally aspirated, not much power. Reading on this great board, like I used to do with my last 9000CSE SAAB, and missing the thrill of acceleration from my 1993 Mustang GT, I started to drill over the thought of having a faster SAAB sleeper.
Due to a low budget the first modification that I did was the installation of the J&R open air from Taliaferro, this was three months after I got the car. To be honest with you, and I am not trying to start a fight, I did not notice much difference at all. The only thing that changed was the sucking noise of the Turbo was suddenly noticeable, due to the luck of the silencer box I guess. No mileage improvement noticed either, was still getting 31 to 34 highway and 21 to 24 local. On last two SAABs I noticed that my mileage will change with seasons, summer 2 to 3 MPG better than winter in general, maybe the additives in winter? NY cold weather. Different story with the stage 3 though, I will talk about it more later.
Trying to look for some more low budget, best bang for the buck, modifications I installed the Hyperboost BPV according to Coolknight, who ever remembers him. (I believe he was one of the first on this board to have a stage 3 installed on his 2000 9-5 Aero? He posted recently about his experience with his car since owned, I enjoyed reading his last post as well). Well now the engine noise got even louder, I could here the piston in the new BPV opening and closing but again did not feel a change. Do not get me wrong personally I like the sound of the Turbo, but I could see some people who might not. With the windows closed however you cannot here a thing.
I drove like this for the last two and a half years reading other peoples notes about their stage 1, stage 2 and stage 3’s experiences. I knew back then I wanted to get to stage 3. I do not know about you guys but the most annoying, and unsafe, phenomenon I think is the Turbo lug. There is nothing more annoying to me than trying to merge into traffic from a dead stop, shifting first to second. Unless you rev the engine high and launch in first gear you could be rear-ended when you shift to second gear and try to stomp the gas pedal. There is almost nothing there, the Turbo lag feels like a 2 agonizing seconds. No matter how hard you stomp on the gas pedal it will take 2 seconds for the car to response. When it finally does it will pull very hard, but that might be too late. I know people might say so rev the engine and start more aggressively in first gear. But it is not always that I fill like driving aggressively. A lot of times I feel like relaxing and taking it easy, it depends on my mood at that moment.
Like everyone else I went through an SID, a DI, two emblems, minor oil leaks, falls head light failures, alarm module, falls rear light failures and surprisingly no rear shocks leaks! Do not get me wrong, I am not trying to scare anyone who is looking for a 9-5 SAAB. Believe me I love this car it is the best car I have ever owned and it is probably the safest car out there today. Those problems are known and after fixing the car is solid, just trying to put down as much info as possible for other owners to compare notes.
Okay now for the serious built up experience towards the stage 3. Because my car is my daily driver I was forced to do the stage 3 mods in increments. I wish I was in closer proximity to Taliaferro SAAB but Missouri is too far of a drive from Long Island New York and unfortunately I do not know of any good mechanic in the area that I can trust. There are no good SAAB dealers here in the area, there is one I go to, it was good till 3 years ago then they lost their service manager, they purchased Volkswagen and it all went down hill from their on. This is a problem, I was forced to do all the work myself but I enjoyed a lot.
Before ordering the parts I was browsing the saabnet board a lot to get as much info as possible. I decided to go with the Remus exhaust because it dose not have a center muffler, it is used on the Viggen and got best reviews. This was a challenge because that was 3 months ago and the Remus was discontinued a while back. Luckily I found one that was left in the saabnet classified section. I ordered it and at the same time I ordered the new 3 Down Pipe / Race Cat and Intake from Taliaferro. What pieces of quality parts, worth every penny in my opinion, I buy almost everything from Nick.
Another device I stumbled on while reading the posts is the SMBC. Dean helped me a lot he gave me lots of information on the SMBC and all the mods, I enjoyed reading his posts a lot, thank you for all the info Dean. I installed the SMBC two weeks before any other hardware. I drove the car for a few days tweaking the SMBC. This device is supposed to reduce the Turbo lag by holding to the boost a little longer, I think, so it comes faster when pressing on the accelerator pedal? Please correct me if I am wrong Dean. I am not an expert on these cars at all but from my experience that is what it felt like and even though on the T7 the boost is limited by the engine management it still helps due to hysteresis effects I believe. The adjustment is very sensitive and one has to find the setting that is best for his/her car.
I drove the car with the SMBC for two weeks enjoying the faster boost response. The accelerator pedal did not feel linear, the car wanted to get close to full boost when pressing about 1/3 of the way. You have to be light on the pedal in order not to go close to full boost, but that is I guess how you get the fast response! I am not sure but I do not think I was over adjusted. I did not have the time to check but I wonder how this affects the MPG, I would assume it would heart the MPG somewhat especially around town when one tends to press the pedal harder. I guess we cannot get things for free, something has to be sacrificed.
Next I installed the down pipe, the exhaust and the intake. I thought I had it all between the down pipe, cat and the full exhaust. Found out the hard way there was also something called a flex pipe, and I needed a new one. Had to borrow a car for a few days till I got the pipe. Like everyone wrote the New Remus fitted like a glove. The new Down Pipe / Cat was not too bad either, had to reroute the second Oxygen sensor to reach the back. Then I installed the intake, the only challenge here was to make sure the V band was properly sealing the new intake to the Turbo compressor.
I backed off the SMBC to get a fresh start and see if I feel the difference in the cars performance. Immediately at start noticed the Remus was a little louder than stock, also the first 30 seconds it is even a little louder. The sound is close to an SPG unfortunately not as throaty but nice. I also noticed more vibration in the cabin. It turned out the down pipe was hitting the upper chassis. Very tricky to get rid off, the new 3” pipe is obviously wider than the original pipe so there is less room for the new pipe to fit between the mid sub-frame and the chassis. It should fit but for some reason I could center it. Tried twice to loosen the new pipe and rotate it, did not help. Had to bend some rods hangers on down pipe and new exhaust to try and center it. Help a lot but still vibrating against chassis when starting in first gear. In ideal it is not touching but I still feel more vibration in cabin. I am not sure if it is the motor mounts are bad but definitely a little more cabin vibration especially with the A/C on. Very difficult to access car from bottom w/out good clearance. I need to go to a local muffler shop, or any place with a lift, and loosen and adjust again. I need more clearance for the pipe benders to fit under car.
Anyway the car behavior changed. It responded faster and was even a little louder with the new intake, I guess like Nick said more air louder sound. Very impressive and with windows down can only here a little. The MPG was the same, maybe a bit better but not by much (+1 MPG, maybe). Trying to look for something to race but no luck, no WRXs, STIs, GS35s, M3s nothing to meet at the light or side-by-side. I know some of the cars mentioned are probably faster, but I wanted to see how fast was the car now, very disappointing, any experience on racing those cars from you guys? First and second gears are very fast but merging with 3rd gear even at full throttle still not enough, in my opinion. Unfortunately third gear seems to be week, you do not get the same pulling effect as second gear.
Played with the SMBC again and similar results as before. Finally had time to order and install new stage 3 software and 3.5 bar fuel pressure regulator (FPR). The ECU was not too difficult to remove/install, just one has to be careful removing the plastic bulkhead cover, very fragile. The FPR was not too difficult to remove but to push the new one into place was a bit tricky. There is no room for a hand to fit the back of it and put good pressure and push it into place. Had to improvise and used the cork gun’s “U” shape end rod to go behind the FPR and pull it into place, done. Had to wait for the spilled fuel to evaporate and then finally started car. Could not wait to see if the new software will make a difference. Took the car for a test drive, did not feel a big difference if any… No check engine light or anything the car started immediately and idled fine. Also noticed the boost gage going very slightly into the red, wondered about that because the Nordic site shows stage 3 boost needle way into red. I know on T7 this shows Torque and not real boost and this is a fake boost indicator but just comparing notes. Called Nick to talk about it, he patiently explained to me that this is normal behavior. He said let the new software adapt to the car for 100 miles, he also said that up to stage 3 the boost gage needle position was not changed and what I experienced was normal.
This was a week and a half ago and 200 miles later. Well the car is very fast, forget about 1st gear, you can shred the tires, second gear is very fast the car pulls very hard all the way to red line (all with traction control off of course). I never got to the red line, I am not sure that it is necessary, is it?
A few comparison notes please:
1. To get the car to 60 MPH the fastest is it necessary to red line it? Any other experiences?
2. Third gear is faster but still not fast enough, at least for me. In third gear if I go half/third way through the throttle the car pulls very hard, but the rest of the throttle does not have much more! Is this what you guys are experiencing?
3. If this is it for third, how can one get the more pull power in third gear?
4. It looks like the car, with a steady/fixed throttle amount, will rev smoothly up to 3000 RPM but then almost suddenly will pull harder from 3000 RPM on, w/out any more gas! Do you experience the same phenomenon? This happens in all gears.
5. Still has noticeable Turbo lag, better but still quite bad. How about you guys?
6. I think my MPG went down! I am not sure yet if it is my heavy foot or real. I reset the trip computer on short 15 minuets highway rides and dropped from 31-34 MPG to 28-31 MPG. I think it is much more sensitive to throttle amount than before. In other words before the ECU change on a slight up hill could still get a momentary 30 MPG reading after reset, while now dropped to 26 MPG. What is your experience?
I did not use the SMBC yet, will try in a few weeks.
Well I blobbed enough it is your turn… I would appreciate any notes sharing experiences.
Enjoy your SAABs.
Rony
posted by 24.45.187...
, Thu, 10 Aug 2006 07:27:04
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