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Re: older 9000 turbo problems; Boston mechanic recommendations
Posted by Brett Dikeman (more from Brett Dikeman) on Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:30:05
In Reply to: older 9000 turbo problems; Boston mechanic recommendations, Brett Dikeman, Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:20:54
>First, the fuses are indeed in the panel above the golvebox, but are
>extremely easily accessed by simply opening the 'fuse door' along
>the top edge of the inside of the box. This location is much easier
>to access than, for example, a VW panel that's upside-down above the
>pedals. That design's pretty lame ! I do agree that the relays are
>tougher to get to, since the glovebox must be removed to access them.
Hey, relax. Just poking a little inter-marque fun, that's all :-) A
couple of the Audi relays are in a similar position, only the glove
compartment is a sliding tray deal, and the relays are -above- the
glove box. Not too many, and things you never have to get too(like
the alarm unit.) The motronic box is in the passenger kick panel;
the aux relay panel(#1 :) is in the driver's side kick panel, and the
> I go into my relays less than once per year, and with some practice
>(and the car's own toolkit), the glovebox can be removed in less
>than 10 minutes by removing a total of 6 screws and pulling the
>glovebox light.
This is very true. I know nothing about saabs, and I was able to
pull the glovebox in just a few minutes, like you said. It's just a
PITA, that's all :-)
>SAAB 16V 2.0 turbos up to '93 have APC: Automatic Performance
>Control, consisting of a boost control box with knock sensor
>feedback that adjusts the wastegate position by modulating the
>duty-cycle of the solenoid. Allows maximum boost pressure up to a
>pre-set level of knocking under all rpm/load/gas-grade conditions.
>
>Assuming the genius mechanic didn't mess up the wastegate rod
>adjustment, driving with an unplugged APC solenoid (the component in
>front with 3 vacuum hoses attached) will result in 'base' boost
>only, which is 4.5 to 5.5 PSI, and should be good for maybe 120
>horsepower.
ok, this is identical to how my 200 operates(1.4 barw/WGFV unplugged,
1.83 bar maximum.)
> It is safe to operate the vehicle this way, and in fact, the
>'95-'97 9000 2.3 LPT engine does just this for 170hP. They pretty
>much just left out the APC components and boost gauge, to win 'best
>engine of the year' from Ward's !
This is an older Saab..I think it's around an '87 or so.
>The APC 'brain' box is located under the dash, on the driver's side
>I believe. I haven't tried to remove it in my car, but it should be
>easy enough to get at from the driver's footwell, removing only the
>felt panel above the pedals (5 or 6 screws).
Yes, I've seen this unit, in fact. I believe it's even marked 'APC' :-)
>The turbo-bypass valve (aka 'Hooter' valve) often needs replacement
>in SAABs approaching 10 years of age.
Yep. Same here for the Audis(only the 200q20v and the S4/S6 have it.)
> A new one from Bosch is recommended over the junkyard.
Yhea...if they're like the Audi valves, they're $30.
> This may not be the direct cause of the problems you're having
>however. Knock sensor may be fauly, or the connection to it may be
>poor.
On the Audis, these things need to be torques juuuuust right, or the
sensor is seriously unhappy. Same for the Saabs? My 200 has two
sensors(twice the trouble :)
> As always, tight vacuum hoses are extremely important, especially
>the one going to the wastegate actuator, the bypass valve, and
>others at the APC solenoid. Salvage yard replacement APC boxes work
>just fine, so there's no need to spend huge bucks on a new one. See
>the TSN parts FAQ for salvage yard listings. A new APC soleniod is
>not outrageously expensive either.
What is the function of the APC soleniod? I suspect the mechanic
wanted the $1k for a new APC controller. We'll make quick work of
that :)
>For component troubleshooting, the Bentley SAAB 900 16V manual is a
>great reference.
Yes, the Bently manuals are far superior for Audis too(the Haynes
manual sucks; it tries to cover two turbo engines, three normally
aspirated engines, and one diesel engine, not to mention 5 different
trannies and 2 different drivetrain systems, all in a book that's a
fifth of the size of the factory repair manual :)
There isn't a Bently available for the 9000? Hmm.
Thanks for all the help David!
Brett
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