The banner above is an advertisment - if it asks you to download software, please ignore.
Site News - 7/1: Members: Log In to See Fewer Ads! | 5/28: SAAB Evolutions/TSN T-Shirts $14

[General | Members | C900 | 9000 | NG900 & OG93 | 93 | 95 | NG95 | 99 | Sonett | Vintage Models | Clubs | Other Cars | FAQs | Gifts | Member Photo Galleries | Member Directory | Classifieds | Manuals | *Buddy Registry | *Mileage Registry | Polls | What's New | Raffle | Photo of the Month | Sponsors]

Performance Bulletin Board
[Subscribe to Daily Digest]
(Search Author's Posts: e.g. Keyword:username)*Members Only


[Main Performance Bulletin Board | BBFAQ | Prev by Date | Post Followup ] Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
Re: it runs lean and you want me to ignore it? more info!
Like This Post: - Subscribe to Daily Digest for this Bulletin Board
Posted by Vigge [Email] (more from Vigge) on Wed, 2 Jul 2003 22:36:17 Share Post by Email
In Reply to: it runs lean and you want me to ignore it? more info!, davenew, Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:16:43
Alert me when someone posts in this thread:
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup

When I told you to ingnore the comment I ment the statement were I wrote about testing the A/F-ratio in your car. I dont know where I got the idea that you drive a viggen with Speedparts upgrade. Anyway here is some more info about the case.

I purchased a stage 1 up-grade to my Viggen from SpeedParts about three months ago. I ran my car in a local dyno 4.4.03 and here is a description of the problem what I encountered. The engine runs extreme lean at WOT (wide open throttle). We used a SUN manufactured four-gas analyzer to measure CO and lambda. CO reading showed 2 (lambda ~0.98) at 4500 rpms The information is not based on one dyno run, we tried to run the car several times both warm and hot but the result was always the same, engine runs lean. When I consulted the SP about the problem this is what was answered many weeks later:

"One can't measure the CO with a Sun, since it is too fast variations now (the curve on a diagram goes up and down too fast).
A broad spectra lambda should be used to get a proper meter of the CO."

I'm having a hard time believing that the given answer is the absolute truth. I know the CO measurement from tail pipe with the sun analyzer causes delay to the measurement and can cause some deviation, but lambda value showing almost one is out of the ballpark. When the engine starts to pick up rpms at WOT the CO value start to raise like it is supposed to do, but as the engine revs higher CO value starts to sink. We felt it was not safe to run the car any higher that 4500 since it was already running way lean. Behalf of the measuring device, the SUN analyzer applies the following. The same device has been used to measure CO's from Saab 9-3 aero (SP stage 1 package as well) and 9-5 aero (automatic with SP stage 1) in equal circumstances mixtures printed out normal in both cases (lambda round 0.85-0.89). The device is also used to tune many racing cars both rally and track. If one could no depend on the SUN values like SP claims in their answer, I believe it would not be used for racing engine tuning.

Since I did not get any further answers form SP, I tried to change some hardware in the car to make it run richer. I had an adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator installed to the car. Now after raising the fuel pressure almost 1 bar I was pleased with the results, lambda ~0.85. Now the engine was running rich enough, but the dyno sheet did not print out the wanted way. From the attached graph [url]http://195.237.18.37/dyno/current.jpg[/url]
you can see, what happens. The waste gate starts to do a "pumping" maneuver at lower rpms, now when there are more exhaust gas is present and the set boost/torque level exceeds the ECU set value sooner. I know duping more fuel to the engine by itself is not the solution, there is also something wrong with the ECU software.

One another thing, both my car and the 9-3 aero will knock on high rpms in dyno. I know that the car has a instrument to control knocking, but I'm curious were the limit is set. The intake air temperature was 23 deg, not particularly high, so that should not cause the problem by it self. Also the acceleration in dyno is a bit slower that on highway and I know knocking will encounter sooner. I only use RON 98 fuel.

Tomorrow it has been three months when I complained about the product the first but no progress has been made. I have gotten several answers to my inquiries from SP, but they all state the one of the following:
"I need to discuss this matter with my colleagues"
"I hope to have answers for you soon"
"I'll get back to you hopefully next week with answers"

I guess the best way would have been not to test the product to begin with. I would probably be driving my Viggen instead of writing happily unaware of the time bomb that was ticking in my engine compartment. How big of a deal running lean at WOT really is? It really depends on the way you are driving and were you drive. For an average Sunday user who accelerates hard one or twice now and then wont probably notice that something is wrong. The engine will also tolerate this because the heat stress caused by lean running is only momentary. The same doesn't applies if you actually use your car for "driving", I did not buy the product thinking the following "all show not for go". I take my car regularly to local racetracks a have fun, where running lean is not an option. Also what would have happened if I had taken my car to Germany for holiday? My bet is that the engine would have melted less than 10min from departure on the autobahn.


posted by 192.89.9...


Posts in this Thread:
Alert me when someone posts in this thread:
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup
Post a Followup

No Site Registration is Required to Post - Site Membership is optional (Member Features List), but helps to keep the site online
for all Saabers. If the site helps you, please consider helping the site by becoming a member.

Name: Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
E-Mail: (Optional)
Re-Enter E-Mail: (Confidential & Secure - Not revealed to other users!)
Note: Please check your spam folder for BB responses.

Subject:

Posting rules are simple - No for sale/wanted ads may be posted here - use the site classifieds.
You may not cross-post your message to multiple BBs.
Not permitted: political/religious topics and being disrespectful (personal attacks, insults, etc...).
Site Members do not see any red text, inline ad links, bottom of page anchor ads, box ads, or anti-spam check.

Message: (please no for sale/wanted classifieds - post those in the Saabnet.com Classifieds)
Links are now automatically made active, no need for any special code (or use the Option Link field below) - don't put links in () or end with a '.'
To add inline images to your post, use [img]http://www.domain.com/img.jpg[endimg] (or use the Optional Image Link field below).


Links are now automatically made active, no need for any special code (or use the Option Link field below) - don't put links in () or end with a '.'
To add inline images to your post above, use [img]http://www.domain.com/img.jpg[endimg] (or use the Optional Image Link field below).

Optional Link: (e.g. http://www.saabnet.com/)
Link Title: (Optional)
Optional Photo/Image Link: (e.g. http://www.saabnet.com/img.jpg)
Photo/Image to Upload: (Please be patient while file uploads)





StateOfNine.com
SaabClub.com
Jak Stoll Performance
M Car Covers
Ad Available

The content on this site may not be republished without permission. Copyright © 1988-2024 - The Saab Network - saabnet.com.
For usage guidelines, see the Mission & Privacy Notice.
[Contact | Site Map | Saabnet.com on Facebook | Saabnet.com on Twitter | Shop Amazon via TSN | Site Donations]

Random Saabnet.com Member Gallery Photos (Click Image)

This is a moderated bulletin board - Posting is a privilege, not a right. Unsolicited commercial postings are not allowed (no spam). Please, no For Sale or Wanted postings, SERIOUSLY. Classifieds are to be listed in The Saab Network Classifieds pages. This is a problem solving forum for over 250,000 Saab owners, so expect to see problems discussed here even though our cars are generally very reliable. This is not an anything goes type of forum. Saabnet.com has been a moderated forum since 1988. For usage guidelines, see the Saabnet.com Mission and Purpose Page. Please remember that you are not anonymous. Site Contact | Site Donations | Other Sites by SP - Poverty2Prosperity.org | Run Club Menlo Park | ScreenBot



Site Members do not see red text instructions, bottom of the page anchor ads, or box ads.
Click here to see all the Site Membership Benefits!