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1994-2002 [Subscribe to Daily Digest] |
Interesting, Mark.
Don't worry, you're not being tough with me. In fact there wasn't a single piece of information in your comment that really...well...let's just say that I feel you could have phrased your comments a bit more constructively.
"57K miles is not the typical lifespan of a head gasket."
-I know very well that 57k is not the normal lifespan of a head gasket
"Yours is defective. "
-I suspect that it or something else is defective, thank you for your support.
"Not all head gaskets are defective or else you'd hear a great deal more hollering on this board (existence of a TSN on the subject does not indicate frequency of failure)."
-There is variance in every system and I do not suspect every head gasket is defective, but rather I was asking if other people had similar experiences so that I could get some idea of the frequency.
It also appears to me that there is quite a bit more "hollering on this board" and the other Saab boards than I'd expect for head gasket problems. I'm also not sure if you really meant TSN (The Saab Net, as in one of their postings) or TSB (Technical Service Bulletin), but I'm actually fairly certain that they would both be highly correlated to the frequency of failure. In addition, it sounds like a lot of people had this problem repaired under warranty, meaning LESS than 57k...sounds suspect, wouldn't you say?
"Parts break on cars."
-(here's where insight into your personality is gained) Yes, parts DO break on cars...very good. Can't get much by you!
"The standard Saab b-to-b warranty is generous considering industry standards."
-Is the b-to-b that great compared to industry standards? It must ceratinly be better than similarly priced, great cars like Hyundai and Kia (5yr/60k) then, right? ...but that's probably because they cost half as much, right? sure! makes sense. Before you get into a huff, I stuck that in there just to make a point, I know other expensive cars like Mercedes, BMW and Volvo have similar or the same warranties, but that doesn't mean that obvious defects causing expensive repairs shouldn't be taken care of by the manufacturer.
Look let's just pretend that I'm the first Saab owner to ever have a problem with their head gasket at 57k or fewer...does that mean that Saab shouldn't be held responsible in light of the fact that the car has never overheated or had any other issues that could be implicated in a head gasket failure? It would seem to me either way, this car has a major and expensive to fix defect, whether it's common to the model or not.
"Saab has already been generous once, asking them for more is inappropriate in this instance. This is the price of owning a car. Sorry"
Saab charges $30,000 for this car. What is innappropriate is for a $30,000 car to need a head gasket replaced at 57k miles and have the manufature not immediately remedy the situation. There is a TSB on the problem...there is also a general TSB related to engine block pitting as a direct result of chronic head gasket leaking, dating from the 900s in 1998!.
With regards to the heater control box, it is gracious of me to call what Saab did to fix a defect in their design "generous" and to thank them (something gladly do because it makes people feel good, which makes me feel good). They were liable because they had not fixed it correctly the first 2 times it was in (while it was under warranty), despite the proper repair procedure being known to them. As a result, I do not think it overly generous for them to have fixed it correctly on their bill. ...nor do I think it overly generous of them to fix this head gasket, as it clearly is a defect in either design, part, or manufacturing.
As I prefer to be civil, I am more than willing to have a reasonable discussion of the issues involved with those who refrain from condescension. Both the Saab reps I spoke to and Doug at Wig Wam have been great about listening to my problem and politely stating their own case where relevant.
You, however, the worldly and wise, Mark, who obviously loves doling out advise (250 posts since Dec. 2000) would rather snidely point out the obvious and speak to a complete stranger as if you were their parent. You may get your point across better easing up on some of that and trying to be a little more objective. If I've misread your posting I do apologize. Otherwise, please do your homework and think out your reasoning before answering postings.
car parts break...yes
and I expect to have expenses as a result of owning a car...this is not my first or second or third
but I am not the only one with responsibility here. Saab has a responsibility to deliver sufficiently well manufatured product for the price that they charge. Right now Saab and I are in the gray area and I am not just going to eat up this type of expense. I've already had to deal with constantly replacing fog lights and listening to my suspension creak like mad every time it's cold (I believe you're familiar with this problem). I simply am not willing to be held responsible for THIS issue which is so obviously a defect (your word).
p.s. I genuinely hope that you did NOT jinx yourself, despite your rudeness.
posted by 64.222.16...
, Tue, 22 Oct 2002 12:12:29
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