The Saab Network Now Mailing List FAQ | |
|
[ Prev by Date ] [ Next by Date ] Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5
Posted by David Prantl (more from David Prantl) on Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:23:20
In Reply to: Maintenance Costs 9-5, Tony & Barb Thompson, Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:18:30
> Some of Erin Epps comments regarding SAAB service/labor charges need >comment... The implication that $30.00 is an exorbitant rate, much less >$50.00 or $60.00, > ought to be considered in light of the following.
Personally, I understood no such implication from the original post. Rather, it was said that $30 is a *very* fortunate find, and $50-$60 is typical.
Nothing to disagree with here, except to suggest that maybe $70-$80 is more typical.
> A good tech. has extensive training and continues to update this >training in order to get and maintain certification > either by ASE or a major manufacturer.
This applies only to a small fraction of the professional auto-service community, since the law does not require professional auto service technicians to have *any* formal training, education, or certification. In fact, many auto service businesses have folks working on today's high-tech vehicles without even as much as a high-school diploma.
> You trust your tech. not only with keeping your car going from point A >to point B but also in doing so safely. You literally trust him or her >with your life.
That's a little over-dramatic. If you can drive the car out of the lot, about the most dangerous thing that can result from a botched service visit afterwards is that the car will stop running at an inconvenient time and place.
> Techs however see only a portion of the labor rate you pay. Much of >this rate goes to the shop. Most of this goes to 'overhead'. Shop costs >are very high.
This varies greatly according to the nature of the shop. If it's a franchised dealership with dozens of new car sales per week and hundreds (if not thousands) of customers, your statement may apply. If it's a small imdependent garage, then things can be substantially different.
> As an example of some SAAB specific items: Tech 2, the computer >diagnostic tool, runs about $4000.00.
Last I checked, a Tech 2 setup ran more like $2500. Regardless, all SAAB cars up to and including model-year 1989 do not have any scan-tool interface capability for diagnosis and repair. 90+% of all diagnosis and repair procedures on newer SAAB cars can also be accomplished without the use of a scan-tool.
> It must be updated with new programs 2 or 3 times a > year at a cost of $300.00 or $400.00 each for an independent shop.
Certainly not. Just because updates may be available this frequently doesn't mean they must be purchased immediately. More often than not an update has to do with the very latest system or component that has been introduced to the market in a brand new model. These brand new models will be under factory warranty for several years, and only after that there could possibly be a need for the independent garage to purchase the scan-tool software update.
> CD parts catalogues also run $600.00 and also require regular updates.
A parts catalogue is not necessary for effective SAAB service. Independent garages that order their parts through a franchised dealer do not have to use valid SAAB part numbers when ordering, just like DIY customers.
> General online information from services such as AllData charge the shop >a monthly fee for updated information as do online parts catalogues.
Neither of these are required to run a SAAB repair business. Besides, there are several very comprehensive on-line parts catalogues that are completely free of charge.
> Then there is the big stuff: an A/C machine, required by law to do any >work on your SAABs climate controlled system, costs about $15,000.00.
No, a charging station is only required for working with refrigerant. Most of a SAAB climate control system (vents and vent controls, servomotors, sensors, electronic controllers, fan motors, heater cores and heater valves) can be serviced without disturbing the refrigerant circuit. A SAAB will go at least 8 years (and often longer) on the original refrigerant charge and compressor, and when a problem does develop, the customer can be referred to an A/C specialist.
> Emissions testing equipment can run $60,000.00. Computerized engine >analyzers can cost well over $15,000.00.
Both are unnecessary. The city or county runs emissions testing centers, if emissions testing is even required by law in the area, and an engine analyzer does little more than what a cheap compression gauge and leakdown tester can do.
> What do you pay your doctor or lawyer for similar crucially important >expertise ?
Hmm. Don't know the specifics, but doctors spend 10+ years of their lives getting an education and accumulating hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt doing it. They are not *allowed* by law to practice medicine without the proper credentials. The law profession has similar requirements. The auto-service profession in comparison has pretty much NO requirements for education, experience, qualification, or membership in professional organizations. You can quite easily get a complete moron wrenching on your SAAB and effing it up !
If a doctor grosses $300 and a lawyer $225 per hour, a certified SAAB master technician with decades of experience and computer skills might expect to take home $40, and the guy who does the oil changes, brake pads and exhaust work maybe $10. Your attempts to compare doctors to auto-mechanics is ludicrous, and borders on being offensive.
The average level of auto-service excellence in the USA is miserable, and it's much worse than average for low-volume expensive specialty cars like SAABs. Most consumers prefer to lease new cars rather than to buy older cars, so that they never have to deal with auto service. Even nearly-bankrupt auto manufacturers with bottom-of-the-barrel quality and safety can sell their products, as long as they include a 100,000-mile / 10-year warranty.
> Regarding parts prices: ...
There are two types of parts. Those designed to wear out, and those designed to last the life of the vehicle. The former are priced by SAAB at a level that's competitive with it's European competitors, and there are aftermarket sources with lower prices. If a component in the latter category is defective, it will become evident during the warranty period and will be replaced at no cost to the owner. That's what the warranty is for. In the past, a SAAB owner might have been stuck with the full burden of an automatic transmission failure in a 9000 model after 5+ years and 70,000+ miles. But nowadays, new technology and a better choice of suppliers (made possible in part by the leverage of General Motors) makes such a failure as likely in a SAAB as in a BMW or Mercedes. (just my opinion)
> Shops and parts distributors are in general not, as seems to be common >perception, marking parts up exorbitantly. Standard markups generally run >20 to 40%. Against this must be deducted costs of shipping, warehousing, >as well > as credit card costs. Net margin is actually quite low.
It is a fact that franchised SAAB dealers in the USA have a recommended markup of approximately 67% on most parts they sell to the general public. Most of these dealers hold very little inventory, so everything but the most common wear items are ordered from the SAAB warehouses in PA or CA as they are needed. Furthermore, SAAB provides a 'drop-shipping' service to it's dealers, whereby a parts shipment up to a certain size from the warehouse costs the dealer a nominal flat fee (something like $5 for 3-day delivery, and $20 for overnight delivery).
Some dealers substitute aftermarket parts of equivalent quality without adjusting the retail price accordingly, thereby easily doubling or more the percent markup.
Since the 67% is only a recommended markup figure, it can easily be much higher on an actual customer invoice.
So, franchised SAAB dealers DO have the opportunity to make a significant addition to their bottom-line profits through parts sales. This also applies to independent garages that use aftermarket parts sources and/or successfully negotiate volume pricing through franchised SAAB dealers.
If the re-selling of parts was not an important revenue stream for dealers and independents alike, why would is be so universally unacceptable for a customer to bring in their own parts for a particular job ? There's always the liability excuse, but what about signing a waiver ? I thought not.
Basically, it all boils down to this. If you're looking for a dealer to service your SAAB, consider yourself lucky to find one that actually employs hard-working knowledgeable technicians, and one that takes pride in servicing the older out-of-warranty cars for their customers. If you're looking for an independent garage, consider yourself lucky if you find one that doesn't take every chance they get to throw hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars worth of new parts at your older SAAB, and one that doesn't fudge their repairs to make sure you come back with the same problem less than two years later. Then again, depeding on where you live, consider yourself lucky to find *any* auto service establishment that's even *willing* to try to work on your older SAAB !
David.
Posts in this Thread:
- Maintenance Costs 9-5, Tony & Barb Thompson, Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:18:30
- Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5, David Prantl, Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:23:20
- Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5, Tashfeen Qayyum, Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:23:19
- Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5, LNDMAN1, Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:56:59
- Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5, Tom Reingold, Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:31:11
- Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5, David - Abbott America, Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:17:32
- Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5, glenn, Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:17:08
- RE: Maintenance Costs 9-5, T. Castle, Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:18:43
- Re: Maintenance Costs 9-5, Jesse King, Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:51:17
- RE: Maintenance Costs 9-5, Epp, Erin, Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:46:17
StateOfNine.com
|
SaabClub.com
|
Jak Stoll Performance
|
M Car Covers
|
Ad Available
|
This is a moderated FAQ - Posting is a privilege, not a right.
Unsolicited commercial postings are not allowed (no Spam). Please, no For Sale or Wanted postings, SERIOUSLY.
Classifieds are to be listed in The Saab Network Classifieds pages.
This is a problem solving forum for over 250,000 Saab owners, so expect to see
problems discussed here even though our cars are generally very reliable. This is not an anything goes
type of forum. TSN has been a moderated forum since 1988. For usage guidelines, see the
TSN Mission and Purpose Page. Please remember that you are
not anonymous Your address is: 3.12.107.155 - Using Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko; compatible; ClaudeBot/1.0; +claudebot@anthropic.com) - Logged.
|