1985-1998 [Subscribe to Daily Digest] |
 | [Main 9000 Bulletin Board | BBFAQ |
Prev by Date | Post Followup ]
Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
Shopping for another car (long) Posted by John Fitzgerald [Email]  (#77)  [Profile/Gallery]
(more from John Fitzgerald) on Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:42:52
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup
|
I've spent a good portion of the past three months looking at cars. I've owned four Saabs and a Chrysler minivan -- a '73 96 (driven four years in England), an '80 99 (20 years and 192k mi), an '86 9000T (13 yrs and 121k mi) and an '87 9000T (5 yrs and 60 k mi). So, I guess I'd say I'm a fairly hard-core Saab owner -- I do a fair amount of repairs, tinkering, and performance modifications to our cars. We have five kids and I decided it was time to search for a replacement primary vehicle for me -- the '87 is still in good shape, but a few little things this past fall made me realize it was time to switch it (gradually) over to a local use / future kids car (my oldest son is 14).
So, here are some semi-random observations on a number of the cars that I drove or considered as a replacement for the '87 9000T. First, it may be noteworthy that this car has a Group 6 box, a Euro-spec 3 bar fuel pressure regulator, a Viggen turbo bypass valve, racing plug wires, a high performance coil, and I experiment with different plugs. HP and acceleration are identical to the Aero. And it's an automatic -- both a blessing and a curse, as I commute through Chicago traffic a couple of times per week about 75 miles each way from southeast Wisconsin to ORD, as I'm a pilot for American Airlines. I also use four Nokia snow tires during winter; have for the past nine years (they also work wonders on the '98 Chrysler minivan) Criteria: meet or exceed the safety, flexibility, reliability, engineering excellence, comfort, and cost factors of my current and previous Saabs. A tough thing to do, as I quickly found out. Note: I plan on keeping whatever I buy for at least 6 to 8 years. With only one exception, all of these cars were test driven at new car dealerships and include warranties.
In roughly the order that I test drove them (several on multiple occasions) here is the field of contenders:
To save space, all of the following had some features not present on my '87 9000T: ABS, dual front air bags, side front air bags, keyless remote & alarm
1998 BMW 528i, $29k asking, 50k mi. Pro: Excellent auto trans, split fold down rear seat, great handling and acceleration, excellent ABS brakes, quiet, nice stereo/cd, dual auto climate, trip computer, heated steering wheel (besides front heated leather seats), excellent gauges and controls
Con: high priced for mileage, smaller rear seat (and slightly smaller front seat) than the 9000T, poorer MPG, poorer ability in snow even w/ snow tires, no "tiptronic" auto trans option, smaller trunk
Overall: a contender, just a bit pricey. Heated steering wheel guaranteed to bring a smile to your face eight months out of the year here in the land of frozen tundra. Surprised Saab & Mercedes don't do it as well.
1999 Lexus RX300, $29k, 20k mi. Pro: versatile and roomy interior, more 'station wagon' than sport ute, AWD, nice climate control & sound system, heated seats, decent ride, warranty coverage for 100k mi (via Lexus certified used cars)
Con: no great 'feel' or handling like a Euro sports sedan, maybe 20 mpg hwy, kinda "plastic-ish" interior controls, dash
Overall: a dark horse -- could be a real player in a few years if suspension options are upgraded for better handling
1999 Audi Quattro wagon, $29k, 35k mi Pro: AWD, versatile interior wagon w/ seven psgr seating
Con: cheap controls, poor dash layout, ride and accel suffer AWD weight penalty, so-so front seat comfort
weak Audi reputation for reliability and durability
Overall: one test drive and it was eliminated
1999 Saab 9-5 LPT, $28k, 30k mi Pro: good interior layout, controls and features well placed, heated rear seat as well as front, rear AC vents, split rear seat, remaining warranty,
Con: didn't really feel like a Saab in ride or handling, smaller rear seat than 9000, smallish trunk, could use more power, noisy ride on coarse pavement, more GM components make me question engine durability beyond 120k
Overall: wait and see. More a replacement for the classic 900 or a step up from the 9-3 than a replacement for the 9000T (as Nines magazine articles have hinted at in the past, especially issues #238 and #240
2000 Saab 9-5 Aero, $35k, 7k mi Pro: all of the above, plus better ride and more power
Con: pricier, not enough used ones with age or mileage to get price down
Overall: might be a contender in a few years. An Aero wagon might be a better compromise, but not as many used ones available yet (and wagon bulk, wind noise and mpg are all negatives)
2000 Mercedes C230 Kompressor, $31k new (and $31.5k used 10k mi, sport suspension w/ 16 in alloys & sport seats)
Pro: excellent ride, responsive supercharged engine, excellent auto trans w/ "tiptronic", split fold down back seat, quiet, good front seat comfort, excellent brakes (as good or better than BMW),4 yr 50k warranty including all service, flexible service system gives adjusted oil change interval depending on your type of driving, traction and stability control (for oversteer/understeer), top-rate engineering throughout
Con: small back seat if you're over 6' tall, didn't have a chance on icy, snow-covered streets compared to the 9000T I drove to the dealer in (although, to be fair, the sport package came w/ Pirelli P6000 tires, a summer only tire, so the snow tires would really help), small trunk, boring interior/dash layout, no trip computer, cheap and glare-filled interior lights
Overall: a very nice car -- best of the "new" cars I drove. Low prices because of the "orphan" model effect of the complete C series redesign in 2001 models.
1997 Saab 9000 Aero, $23k, 21k mi. Pro: ride, acceleration, durability, good brakes, good hwy mpg with a 5 speed, versatile interior w/ hatchback, comfy sport seats, enhanced trip computer, much less expensive than all other contenders, roomy rear seat
Con: less hatchback space than my '87 9000T, rear 'sport' seats don't fold flat easily, 5 speed could be a killer during rush hour Chicago toll-road gridlock, warranty expires in April, already four years old (time critical components like bushings, hoses, belts, seals, door gaskets, etc, will dry out and harden even if it has very low miles)
Overall: a very nice package, especially since it's my current vehicle and 'benchmark'. The fact that I have the dealer tech manuals and know how to work on the 9000 series (brakes, filters, hoses, the cabin air heat / AC fan, etc) mitigates the 4 year old age drawback of the car
Driven but not even close to serious contention:
1999 Lexus LS400 too Japanese, no fold down rear seat, see RX300 'con" comments
1999 Mercedes ML320 expensive and poor reliability ratings
1999 BMW 323i Wagon too small and too expensive
1998 BMW 528iT Wagon way too expensive, few advantages beyond the 528 sedan
Okay -- I decided to buy the '97 Aero and am still a Saab loyalist. BUT the Mercedes compared very well with the 9-5 Aero and would be my second choice right now, if I total the Saab prior to the end of it's useful lifespan. The 528 was also very impressive; Saab seems to have used it's rear seat as the benchmark for the 9-5: seats, interior space, trunk, features all very comparable. Probably tied with the 9-5 Aero as a close third place. The Lexus RX300 was a pleasant surprise; I haven't been very impressed with ANY sport-ute until it.
Very interesting to study in detail a Mercedes engineering features book designed to train salesmen. They use very similar systems for engine management to Saab's Trionic, even to the point of monitoring post-combustion ionization with the spark plugs, as well as direct ignition. I'd always thought their safety engineering was top notch; apparently the motoring press pays less attention to their engine and drivetrain systems.
The smaller hatch area in the newer 9000T is a bit of a shock. I bike lots and cross-couture ski in the winter. One of the common summer uses of my car is to take two of my kids to swim team practice at 0530 each weekday morning in the summer. I put my road bike in the hatch and ride while they swim for two hours. The '97 Aero and the RX300 were the only two finalists that I could continue to do that with -- all the other split seat cars driven require both portions down to get a bike in, even with the front wheel removed. The handling was also surprising on the newest Saabs -- several dealers commented that many of the Euro sedans (BMW, Saab, Mercedes, Audi) have "softer" (ie, mushier) rides in the 1999 and newer models. That's precisely what I'd characterize the ride of the 9-5 'non-Aero' as: fine for lots of rough pavement, but overall a loss of road feel. There have been suggestions that the 9-5 feel & handling suffer some from using MXV4 tires; that may contribute to it, but I'm also driving, as direct comparison, a 14 year old 9000T with snow tires (Nokia Hakka 1's) that certainly shouldn't be comparable to a high quality summer tire in terms of handling and road feel, yet it does feel noticeably better on dry pavement; ie communicates with the driver better, than a new 9-5 with standard tires. It remains to be seen if the tires really are the culprit. I hope the 9-5 Aero is successful and provides us a reasonable alternative in the future, as both BMW and Mercedes are quite a bit pricier in general.
Merry Christmas,
John Fitzgerald
_______________________________________ John Burlington, Wisc '73 96 RHD sold after four years in Middle Barton, Oxfordshire, UK '80 99 bought new, sold after 20 years/192,000mi '86 9kT picked up at Trollhatten, sold after 12 years/approx 121,000 mi '87 9kT sold after 9 years/approx 174,000 mi '94 CSE given to my son after 8 years @ 245k; he sold it at 254k mi '95 Aero 146,xxx mi sold '98 CSE 248,xxx mi gave it away '97 Aero 317,xxx mi my daughter’s school car … gave away [we put 300k mi on it] still driving: '97 CSE 170xxx mi 'project car' for myself and my daughters to drive '07 9-3 2.0T 240xxx '08 9-5 191xxx mi my wife's daily driver and a couple of 'non-Saabs': '01 Suburban 201,xxx mi '03 BMW 330 Cic 84,xxx mi '14 Mercedes E350 103,xxx mi
, Fri, 22 Dec 2000 11:42:52 <-- Viewing This Message, Fri, 22 Dec 2000 23:04:11
, Fri, 22 Dec 2000 16:12:26, Mon, 25 Dec 2000 15:12:29, Mon, 25 Dec 2000 21:33:10, Tue, 26 Dec 2000 14:40:06, Wed, 27 Dec 2000 21:12:27, Thu, 28 Dec 2000 04:34:41
No Site Registration is Required to Post - Site Membership is optional (Member Features List), but helps to keep the site online
for all Saabers. If the site helps you, please consider helping the site by becoming a member.
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
