1985-1998 [Subscribe to Daily Digest] |
Here are some answers to your questions. Also, I emailed Bob more information.
1. I currently have three Saab 9000s, all of which have been fastidiously maintained with fluid changes at the Saab-recommended intervals, using Saab-recommended fluids. The fluid in each appears clean and clear and at fluid changes, the inside of the cooling system (what little is visible) appears like new. Paradoxically, it is only a cooling system in this condition that I would deem it safe to add a stop-leak product to. The five 9000s I have owned (including these three) have never displayed any cooling system problems, with the exception of a leak when I didn't tighten up a hose clamp properly after a coolant change. In total, these five vehicles have covered almost 700,000 miles between them. None of them has given any sign that any additional corrosion- or scale-inhibitor is necessary.
What benefit can you say I will see on my vehicles with the regular addition of Bar's Leaks? Do you have any comparative results to show the benefits of Bar's Leaks treatment against an otherwise identical untreated vehicle?
Honestly a lot of the testing has been real world testing. We sell millions of packages of product to the aftermart (non-OEM) each year. The cleaning agent in Bar's Leaks helps to keep down the rust and scale. Bar's Leaks also helps to control the pH and this also keeps down the rust and scale. I did send Bob an example of a vehicle that was torn apart after using Bar's Leaks for it's entire life.
2. Bob has published a list on this board of car manufacturers who both install Bar's Leaks at the factory and recommend its addition at every coolant change. Is this list still current? The reason I ask is that I have read a report elsewhere on the Internet that Jaguar, one of the more impressive names on the list, no longer either install Bar's Leaks or recommend its use. This is, of course, hearsay, but you can see that it calls into question the validity of the list that has been used here as a "marketing tool" by the proponents of Bar's Leaks. Can you confirm or deny this report? If the report is true, then perhaps you can furnish us with a revised version of the list. I appreciate that Jaguar may still be purchasing this product from Bar's even if they have stopped using and recommending it, as it has been sold as a Jaguar part for many years.
Our OEM usage is a great marketing tool and we use it everyday. Jaguar is still buying and using Bar's Leaks and I would like to find out any information that says otherwise. As for an updated list, I have not updated it since last year and it does not change much from year to year. We will be updating our website over the next 6 to 8 months and we will start including some of this information on the website.
3. Another question about the list. In support of the recommendation to use Bar's Leaks as preventative maintenance, the statement is often made (I paraphrase) "all these big OEMs use it, so it must give some benefit", with the implication that, like the recommendation of a high-quality oil, the addition of Bar's Leaks increases longevity of the vehicle, or has some other beneficial effect relevant to the long-term owner of the car. To validate this, it is essential to know exactly the benefit that the OEMs derive from installing Bar's Leaks in their new cars. For example, if it is simply to reduce warranty claims due to small leaks in brand new cars, as has been suggested, then this is irrelevant to the fastidious car owner who is prepared to fix any leaks that might occur in the "proper" manner.
Do you have any information (that you can divulge - I appreciate that client confidentiality might get in the way) on what benefit these manufacturers are seeking when they decide to install and recommend Bar's Leaks, given that this must add (admittedly only slightly) to the manufacturing cost of a vehicle?
The OEM's want to make sure that the the consumer does not have any problems with the cooling system. The bulk of our sales for the aftermarket is to people that have a leak and can't afford to fix it, etc. Those are the facts. We have tried to sell the Bar's Leaks as a conditioner and most people just don't think about or care about their cooling system. The cooling system is the most neglected part of the automobile. As I dig up any other data, I will forward it over to Bob.
posted by 66.208.246...
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