Understand now, but disagree - Saab NG900 & OG9-3 Bulletin Board - Saabnet.com
The banner above is an advertisment - if it asks you to download software, please ignore.
Site News -

[General | Members | C900 | 9000 | NG900 & OG93 | 93 | 95 | NG95 | 99 | Sonett | Vintage Models | Clubs | Other Cars | FAQs | Gifts | Member Photo Galleries | Member Directory | Classifieds | Manuals | *Buddy Registry | *Mileage Registry | Polls | What's New | Raffle | Photo of the Month | Sponsors]

NG900 & OG93 Bulletin Board
1994-2002 [Subscribe to Daily Digest]
(Search Author's Posts: e.g. Keyword:username)*Members Only


[Main NG900 & OG93 Bulletin Board | BBFAQ | Prev by Date | Next by Date | Post Followup ] Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
Understand now, but disagree
Like This Post: - Subscribe to Daily Digest for this Bulletin Board
Posted by Mr. Science (more from Mr. Science) on Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:36:14 Share Post by Email
In Reply to: General relativity thought experiment., J, Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:36:49
Alert me when someone posts in this thread:
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup

I understand your analogy now.

A baseball bat supported from the bottom (assume weight acting down) is unstable because upon any rotation from the vertical, the normal reaction force and the weight force are no longer in line, and an overturning moment is generated from this misalignment, tending to make the bat rotate away from its initial position.

If you instead support the bat from the top, then there's still a misalignment after any rotation from the vertical, but the moment generated is instead a restoring one, tending to make the bat rotate back toward its initial position.

The reason this works is because both the weight force and the normal reaction force act only in the vertical direction. This is where I find disagreement in the car analogy.

We can draw similar free body diagrams for front and rear drive cars. Look down on the car from the top, with the front of the car up. The drag force acts downward (this is why you need drive force from the wheels to maintain constant speed). The force from the drive wheels acts along the longitudinal axis of the car.

If the longitudinal axis of the car is straight up and down, then the drive force is also in the vertical axis, and the forces align (assuming left and right wheels give equal drive force), and we're balanced.

What you're saying J (I think) is that if we give the car some rotation from that up/down axis, as we did for the bat, then the force of the drive wheels will create a moment, overturning for RWD, and restoring for FWD, as happened with the bat. However, this isn't true, because when the longitudinal axis of the car is rotated from the vertical, the drive force no longer acts in a vertical line. The drive force is also rotated, such that it continues to act through the CG. There's no moment. This is unlike the bat, because in that situation, no matter how we rotate the bat, the normal force still acts in the same direction.

Stability of a car in an initially rotated position depends upon the ability of the tires to provide restoring moment due to lateral friction forces, perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the car. Depending upon the location of your CG with respect to front/back of the car (i.e. the weight bias), the relative amount of force required to be provided from front vs. rear wheels in order to get a restoring moment varies.

If your CG is really far toward the back (old 911), then the rear tires must provide a large force, due to the small moment arm, to rotate the car back toward the vertical. The front tires could do it with a relatively smaller force (larger moment arm).

The situation is reversed for a front heavy car like a 9-3.

In either case, the weight bias is helping you a little, because more weight on the tires means you've got more capability to generate lateral force due to friction.

Assuming you're in a slippery situation, you've got minimal traction capability on all the tires. You want to have your best traction where it can most easily help you. Therefore, put your better pair of tires on the rear of your front-heavy 9-3.

Whaddya think, J?

'Roo



posted by 130.76.6...


Posts in this Thread:
Alert me when someone posts in this thread:
Members do not see ads below this line. - Help Keep This Site Online - Signup
Post a Followup

No Site Registration is Required to Post - Site Membership is optional (Member Features List), but helps to keep the site online
for all Saabers. If the site helps you, please consider helping the site by becoming a member.

Name: Member Login / Signup - Members see fewer ads. - Latest Member Gallery Photos
E-Mail: (Optional)
Re-Enter E-Mail: (Confidential & Secure - Not revealed to other users!)
Note: Please check your spam folder for BB responses.

Subject:

Posting rules are simple - No for sale/wanted ads may be posted here - use the site classifieds.
You may not cross-post your message to multiple BBs.
Not permitted: political/religious topics and being disrespectful (personal attacks, insults, etc...).
Site Members do not see any red text, inline ad links, bottom of page anchor ads, box ads, or anti-spam check.

Message: (please no for sale/wanted classifieds - post those in the Saabnet.com Classifieds)
Links are now automatically made active, no need for any special code (or use the Option Link field below) - don't put links in () or end with a '.'
To add inline images to your post, use [img]http://www.domain.com/img.jpg[endimg] (or use the Optional Image Link field below).


Links are now automatically made active, no need for any special code (or use the Option Link field below) - don't put links in () or end with a '.'
To add inline images to your post above, use [img]http://www.domain.com/img.jpg[endimg] (or use the Optional Image Link field below).

Optional Link: (e.g. http://www.saabnet.com/)
Link Title: (Optional)
Optional Photo/Image Link: (e.g. http://www.saabnet.com/img.jpg)
Photo/Image to Upload: (Please be patient while file uploads)





StateOfNine.com
SaabClub.com
Jak Stoll Performance
M Car Covers
Ad Available

The content on this site may not be republished without permission. Copyright © 1988-2024 - The Saab Network - saabnet.com.
For usage guidelines, see the Mission & Privacy Notice.
[Contact | Site Map | Saabnet.com on Facebook | Saabnet.com on Twitter | Shop Amazon via TSN | Site Donations]

Random Saabnet.com Member Gallery Photos (Click Image)

This is a moderated bulletin board - Posting is a privilege, not a right. Unsolicited commercial postings are not allowed (no spam). Please, no For Sale or Wanted postings, SERIOUSLY. Classifieds are to be listed in The Saab Network Classifieds pages. This is a problem solving forum for over 250,000 Saab owners, so expect to see problems discussed here even though our cars are generally very reliable. This is not an anything goes type of forum. Saabnet.com has been a moderated forum since 1988. For usage guidelines, see the Saabnet.com Mission and Purpose Page. Please remember that you are not anonymous. Site Contact | Site Donations | Other Sites by SP - Poverty2Prosperity.org | Run Club Menlo Park | ScreenBot



Site Members do not see red text instructions, bottom of the page anchor ads, or box ads.
Click here to see all the Site Membership Benefits!