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, Sun, 25 Aug 2002 13:26:13
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Tom, see my post above (linked below) about what I've found with Jaguar and Bar's. They used to recommend adding it with every coolant change as well. However, what I've read seems to suggest that this is outdated and they no longer either install it at the factory or recommend its use in the cars they originally recommended it for.
If your Jaguar manual is a recent edition (in the last two years, say), then that would seem to refute what I've read elsewhere on the web, which was not authoritative (i.e. I didn't get it directly from Jaguar). I've also read that Bar's Leaks makes it very difficult to remove the head from these engines, due to the build-up of the stuff around the cylinder head studs.
Can I re-iterate that I have nothing against Bar's Leaks as such, but everything I've seen so far suggests one of theose "miracle" products that I should "believe in". I shouldn't need to "believe" - the facts should speak for themselves. I have not seen any facts to support the claim that installing Bar's Leaks in my 9000s and renewing it at every coolant change will give me a benefit (I haven't had a heater core leak yet).
I have no problem in accepting that it stops leaks. That is it's primary claim and is easily substantiated - as you and others here have already done. It's this "conditioning" of the cooling system that, apart from mention of lubricating the water pump seal, goes completely unspecified. This is also the claim that transforms a "one-shot" leak-stop product into repeat business, without me understanding what it gives me that the Mercedes (or Saab) antifreeze lacks. That's what makes me suspicious and that's what I want someone to explain to me. Their automotive case study (what is the "industrial plant" case study all about? All pictures, no words) on their web site was performed on an unspecified date (but I'd guess no later than 1980?) on a 1974 car with what looks like a cast iron head and brass radiator. This car was pretty low-tech compared to many of its European and Japanese contemporaries (and perhaps US contemporaries?). The inside of the cooling system looks disgusting compared to the shiny aluminium inside my 9000s (no rust, sludge or scale in evidence, *despite* not using Bar's Leaks). It's a fair bet that's where those twenty bottles of BL have gone before the first coolant change. It still looks like rust or sludge to me. Given the speculation in the rest of this thread, might this sludgy coating transfer heat to the coolant better than if it weren't there?
If they'd done the same with an identical car that hadn't had Bar's Leaks installed and been able to show a substantial difference under the supervision of an independent authority, then I'd be more interested. However, some mechanic saying "this cooling system is cleaner than they usually are" or "there's less cylinder wear here than I would have expected" (I've paraphrased their expert's actual words) doesn't convince me. Where's the control in this experiment?
And they haven't demonstrated the benefits on a modern car at all.
This sounds like a great product, given all its claims. Perhaps their marketing people are concentrating on the "gee-whizz" sector of the market and people who are looking for a quick fix and don't care much about anything else. As an engineer, I look for sound results before replacing (or adding to) a critical component in my cars. The pseudo-scientific "evidence" presented both here and on the Bar's website are not enough to convince me that Bar's Leaks is anything other than a stop-leak product that is effective when added for the express purpose of stopping a coolant system leak. This being the case, there is usually a better way to fix the leak.
I've been urged a number of times on this board to pour this stuff into my cooling system(s) and I want to know why I am doing it before I do.
posted by 62.253....
, Sun, 25 Aug 2002 13:26:13, Sun, 25 Aug 2002 23:46:17
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